taught in universities, founded for the purposes
and on the principles of another, which in many
points are directly opposite. If a Roman Catho-
lick clergyman, intended for celibacy, and the
function of confession, is not strictly bred in a se-
minary where these things are respected, inculcated
and enforced, as sacred, and not made the subject
of derision and obloquy, he will be ill fitted for
the former, and the latter will be indeed in his
hands a terrible instrument,
There is a great resemblance between the whole
frame and constitution of the Greek and Latin
churches.
AGAINST IRISH CATHOLICKS.
churches. The secular clergy, in the former, by
being married, living under little restraint, and
having no particular education suited to their
function, are universally fallen into such contempt,
that they are never permitted to aspire to the dig-
nities of their own church. It is not held respect-
ful to call them papas, their true and ancient ap-
pellation, but those who wish to address them with
civility always call them hieromonachi. In conse-
quence of this disrespect, which I venture to say,
in such a church, must be the consequence of a
secular life, a very great degeneracy from repu-
table Christian manners has taken place throughout
almost the whole of that great member of the
Christian Church.
It was so with the Latin church, before the re-
straint on marriage. Even that restraint gave rise
to the greatest disorders before the council of
Trent, which together with the emulation raised,
and the good examples given by the reformed
churches, wherever they were in view of each
other, has brought on that happy amendment,
which we see in the Latin c6mmunion, both at
home and abroad.
The council of Trent has wisely introduced the
discipline of seminaries, by which priests are not
trusted for a clerical institution, even to the severe
discipline of their colleges; but, after they pass
through them, are frequently, if not for the greater
part
S86 ON THE PENAL LAWS
part obliged to pass through peculiar methods,
having their particular ritual function in view.
It is in a great measure to this, and to similar me-
thods used in foreign education, that the Roman
Catholick clergy of Ireland, miserably provided
for, living among low and ill regulated people,
without any discipline of sufficient force to secure
good manners, have been prevented from becom-
ing an intolerable nuisance to the country, instead
of being, as I conceive they generally are, a very
great service to it.
The ministers of protestant churches require a
different mode of education, more liberal and more
fit for the ordinary intercourse of life. That re-
ligion having little hold on the minds of people
by external ceremonies, and extraordinary observ-
ances, or separate habits of living, the clergy make
up the deficiency by cultivating their minds with
all kinds of ornamental learning, which the libe-
ral provision made in England and Ireland for the
parochial clergy, (to say nothing of the ample
church preferments, with little or no duties an-
nexed) and the comparative lightness of parochial
duties, enables the greater part of them in some
considerable degree to accomplish.
This learning, which I believe to be pretty ge-
neral, together with a higher situation, and more
chastened by the opinion of mankind, forms a suf-
ficient security for the morals of the established
clergy,
AGAINST IRISH CATHOLICKS. 287
clergy, and for their sustaining their clerical cha-
racter with dignity. It is not necessary to observe,
that all these things are, however collateral to their
function, and that except in preaching, which may
be and is supplied, and often best supplied, out of
printed books, little else is necessary for a protest-
ant minister, than to be able to read the English
language ; I mean for the exercise of his function,
not to the qualification of his admission to it. But
a popish parson in Ireland may do very well with-
out any considerable classical erudition, or any pro-
ficiency in pure or mixed mathematicks, or any
knowledge of civil history. Even if the catholick
clergy should possess those acquisitions, as at first
many of them do, they soon lose them in the pain-
ful course of professional and parochial duties: but
they must have all the knowledge, and what is to
them more important than the knowledge, the
discipline necessary to those duties. All modes of
education, conducted by those whose minds are
cast in another mould, as I may say, and whose
original ways of thinking are formed upon the
reverse pattern, must be to them not only useless,
but mischievous. Just as I should suppose the edu-
cation in a popish ecclesiastical seminary would be
ill fitted for a protestant clergyman. To educate
a catholick priest in a protestant seminary would
be much worse. The protestant educated amongst
catholicks has only something to reject : what he
keeps
288 ON THE PENAL LAWS
keeps may be useful. But a catholick parish priest
learns little for his peculiar purpose and duty in a
protestant college.
All this, my lord, I know very well, will pass
for nothing with those who wish that the popish
clergy should be illiterate, and in a situation to
produce contempt arid detestation. Their minds
are wholly taken up with party squabbles, and I
have- neither leisure nor inclination to apply any
part of what I have to say, to those who never
think of religion, or of the commonwealth, in any
other light, than as they tend to the prevalence of
some faction in either. I speak on a supposition,
that there is a disposition to take the state in the
condition in which it is found, and to improve it in
that state to the best advantage. Hitherto the plan
for the government of Ireland has been, to sacrifice
the civil prosperity of the nation to its religious
improvement. But if people in power there are
at length come to entertain other ideas, they will
consider the good order, decorum, virtue, and mo-
rality of every description of men among them, as
of infinitely greater importance than the struggle
(for it is nothing better) to change those descrip-
tions by means, which put to hazard objects,
which, in my poor opinion, are of more import-
ance to religion and to the state, than all the pole-
mical matter which has been agitated among men
from the beginning of the world to this hour.
On
AGAINST IRISH CATHOLICKS. 289
On this idea, an education fitted to each order
division of men, such as they are found, will
be thought an affair rather to be encouraged than
discountenanced : and until institutions at home,
suitable to the occasions and necessities of the
people, are established, and which are armed, as
they are abroad, with authority to coerce the
young men to be formed in them, by a strict and
severe discipline, the means they have, at -pre-
sent, of a cheap and effectual education in other
countries, should not continue to be prohibited by
penalties and modes of inquisition, not fit to be
mentioned to ears that are organized to the chaste
sounds of equity and justice.
Before I had written thus far, I heard of a scheme
of giving to the Castle the patronage of the pre-
siding members of the catholick clergy. At first
I could scarcely credit it : for I believe it is the first
time that the presentation to other people's alms
has been desired in any country. If the state pro-
vides a suitable maintenance and temporality for
the governing members of the Irish Roman
catholick church, and for the clergy under them,
I should think the project, however improper in
other respects, to be by no means unjust. But to
deprive a poor people, who maintain a second set
of clergy, out of the miserable remains of what is
left after taxing and tything to deprive them of
the disposition of their own charities among their
VOL. vi. U own
S90 ON THE PENAL LAWS
own communion, would, in my opinion, be an in-
tolerable hardship. Never were the members of
one religious sect fit to appoint the pastors to an-
other. Those who have no regard for their wel-
O
fare, reputation, or internal quiet, will not appoint
such as are proper. The seraglio of Constantinople
is as equitable as we are, whether catholicks or
protestants : and where their own sect is concerned,
full as religious. But the sport which they make
of the miserable dignities of the Greek church, the
little factions of the haram, to which they make
them subservient, the continual sale to which they
expose and re-expose the same dignity, and by
which they squeeze all the iriferiour orders of the
clergy, is (for I have had particular means of be-
ing acquainted with it) nearly equal to all the
other oppressions together, exercised by mussul-
men over the unhappy members of the Oriental
church. It is a great deal to suppose that even
the present Castle would nominate bishops for the
Roman church of Ireland, with a religious regard
for its welfare. Perhaps they cannot, perhaps they
dare not do it.
But suppose them to be as well inclined as I
know that I am, to do the catholicks all kind of
justice, I declare I would not, if it were in my
power, take that patronage on myself. I know I
ought not to do it. I belong to another commu-
nity and it would be intolerable usurpation for me
to
AGAINST IRISH CATHOLICKS. 291
to affect such authority, where I conferred no be-
nefit, or even if I did confer (as in some degree
the seraglio does) temporal advantages. But, al-
lowing that the present Castle finds itself fit to
administer the government of a church which they
solemnly forswear, and forswear with very hard
words and many evil epithets, and that as often as
they qualify themselves for the power which is to
give this very patronage, or to give any thing else
that they desire ; yet they cannot ensure them-
selves that a man like the late Lord Chesterfield
will not succeed to them. This man, while he was
duping the credulity of papists with fine words in
private, and commending their good behaviour
during a rebellion in Great Britain, (as it well de-
served to be commended and rewarded) was ca-
pable of urging penal laws against them in a speech
from the throne, and of stimulating with provo-
catives the wearied and half-exhausted bigotry of
the then parliament of Ireland. They set to work,
but they were at a loss what to do ; for they had
already almost gone through every contrivance
which could waste the vigour of their country : but,
after much struggle, they produced a child of their
old age, the shocking and unnatural act about mar-
riages, which tended to finish the scheme for mak-
ing the people not only two distinct parties for
ever, but keeping them as two distinct species in
the same land. Mr. Gardiner's humanity was
u 2 shocked
292 ON THE PENAL LAWS
shocked at it, as one of the worst parts of tha
truly barbarous system, if one could well settle
the preference, where almost all the parts were
outrages on the rights of humanity, and the laws
of nature.
Suppose an atheist, playing the part of a bigot,
should be in power again in that country, do you
believe that he would faithfully and religiously ad-
minister the trust of appointing pastors to a church,
which, wanting every other support, stands in ten-
fold need of ministers who will be dear to the
people committed to their charge, and who will
exercise a really paternal authority amongst them ?
But if the superiour power was always in a disposi-
tion to dispense conscientiously, and like an up-
right trustee and guardian of these rights which
he holds for those with whom he is at variance,
has he the capacity and means of doing it ? How
<:an the lord lieutenant form the least judgment of
their merits, so as to discern which of the popish
priests is fit to be made a bishop ? It cannot be :
the idea is ridiculous. He will hand them over to
lords lieutenants of counties, justices of the peace,
and other persons, who, for the purpose of vexing
and turning to derision this miserable people, will
pick out the worst and most obnoxious they can
find amongst the clergy to set over the rest. Who-
ever is complained against by his brother will be
considered as persecuted : whoever is censured by
his
AGAINST IRISH CATHOLICKS, 295
his superiour will be looked upon as oppressed :
whoever is careless in his opinions, and loose in
his morals, will be called a liberal man, and will
be supposed to have incurred hatred, because he
was not a bigot. Informers, tale-bearers, perverse
and obstinate men, flatterers, who turn their back
upon their flock, and court the protestant gentle-
men of the country, will be the objects of prefer-
ment. And then I run no risk in foretelling, that
o'
whatever order, quiet, and morality you have in
the country, will be lost. A popish clergy, who
are not restrained by the most austere subordina-
tion, will become a nuisance, a real publick griev-
ance of the heaviest kind, in any country that en-
tertains them : and instead of the great benefit
which Ireland does, and has long derived from
them, if they are educated without any idea of
discipline and obedience, and then put under
bishops ; who do not owe their station to their good
opinion, and whom they cannot respect, that na-
tion will see disorders, of which, bad as things are,
it has yet no idea. I do not say this, as thinking
the leading men in Ireland would exercise this
trust worse than others. Not at all. No man, no
set of men living are fit to administer the affairs,
or regulate the interiour economy of a church to
which they are enemies.
As to government, if I might recommend a pru-
dent caution to them, it would be, to innovate.
u 3 as
294
as little as possible, upon speculation, in establish-
ments, from which, as they stand, they experience
no material inconvenience to the repose of the
country, quieta non movere. I could say a great
deal more ; but I am tired ; and am afraid your
lordship is tired too. I have not sat to this letter
a single quarter of an hour without interruption.
It has grown long, and probably contains many
repetitions, from my total want of leisure to digest
and consolidate my thoughts ; and as to my ex-
pressions, I could wish to be able perhaps to mea-
sure them more exactly. But my intentions are
fair, and I certainly mean to offend nobody.
Thinking over this matter more maturely, I
see no reason for altering my opinion in any part.
The act, as far as it goes, is good undoubtedly.
It amounts, I think, very nearly to a toleration,
with respect to religious ceremonies ; but it puts
a new bolt on civil rights, and rivets it to the old
one, in such a manner, that neither, I fear, will be
easily loosened. What I could have wished would
be, to see the civil advantages take the lead ; the
other of a religious toleration, I conceive, would
follow, (in a manner) of course. From what I
have observed, it is pride, arrogance, and a spirit
of
AGAINST IRISH CATHOLICKS. 29$
of domination, and not a bigoted spirit of reli-
gion, that has caused and kept up those oppressive
statutes. I am sure I have known those who have
oppressed papists in their civil rights, exceedingly
indulgent to them in their religious ceremonies,
and who really wished them to continue catho-
licks, in order to furnish pretences for oppression.
These persons never saw a man (by converting)
escape out of their power, but with grudging and
regret. I have known men, to whom I am not
uncharitable in saying, (though they are dead)
that they would have become papists in order to
oppress protestants ; if, being protestants, it was
not in their power to oppress papists. It is injus-
tice, and not a mistaken conscience, that has been
the principle of persecution, at least as far as it has
fallen under my observation. However, as I be-
gan, so I end. I do not know the map of the
country. Mr. Gardiner, who conducts this great
and difficult work, and those who support him,
are better judges of the business than I can pretend
to be, who have not set my foot in Ireland these
sixteen years. I have been given to understand,
that I am not considered as a friend to that coun-
try : and I know that pains have been taken to
lessen the credit that I might have had there.
*******
I am so convinced of the weakness of interfering
in any business, without the opinion of the people
u 4 in
296 ON THE PENAL LAWS, &C.
in whose business I interfere, that I do not know
how to acquit myself of what I have now done.
I have the honour to be, with high regard and
esteem,
My Lord,
Your Lordship's most obedient,
And humble servant, c.
EDMUND BURKE.
A LETTER
SIR H. LANGRISHE, BART. M.P.
ON THI SUBJECT OF TUB
ROMAN CATHOLICKS OF IRELAND,
THE PROPRIETY OF ADMITTING THEM
THE ELECTIVE FRANCHISE,
CONSISTENTLY WITH T1IK
PRINCIPLES OF THE CONSTITUTION
AS ESTABLISHED AT
THE REVOLUTION.
LETTER,
MY DEAR SIR,
YOUR remembrance of me, with sentiments
of so much kindness, has given me the most sin-
cere satisfaction. It perfectly agrees with the
friendly and hospitable reception which my son
and I received from you, some time since, when,
after an absence of twenty-two years, I had the
happiness of embracing you, among my few sur-
viving friends.
I really imagined that I should not again inte-
rest myself in any publick business. I had, to the
best of my moderate faculties, paid my club to the
society, which I was born in some way or other
to serve ; and I thought I had a right to put on
my night-gown and slippers, and wish a cheerful
evening to the good company I must leave behind.
But if our resolutions of vigour and exertion are
so often broken or procrastinated in the execution,
I think we may be excused, if we are not very
punctual in fulfilling our engagements to indo-
lence and inactivity. I have indeed no power of
action ; and am almost a cripple, even with regard
to
300 A LETTER TO
to thinking : but you descend with force into the
stagnant pool ; and you cause such a fermentation,
as to cure at least one impotent creature of his
lameness, though it cannot enable him either to
run or to wrestle.
You see by the paper*! take that I am likely to
be long, with malice prepense. You have brought
under my view a subject, always difficult, at present
critical. It has filled my thoughts, which I wish
to lay open to you with the clearness and simpli-
city which your friendship demands from me. I
thank you for the communication of your ideas.
I should be still more pleased if they had been more
your own. What you hint, I believe, to be the
case ; that if you had not deferred to the judg-
ment of others, our opinions would not differ
more materially at this day, than they did when
we used to confer on the same subject, so many
years ago. If I still persevere in my old opinions,
it is no small comfort to me, that it is not with
regard to doctrines properly yours that I discover
my indocility.
The case, upon which your letter of the 10th of
December turns, is hardly before me with precision
enough, to enable me to form any very certain judg-
ment upon it. It seems to be some plan of further
indulgence proposed for the Catholicks of Ireland.
You observe, that your " general principles are
* The letter is written on folio sheets.
" not
Sift HERCULES LANGK1SHE, M. P.
" not changed, but that times and circumstances
" are altered." I perfectly agree with you, that
times and circumstances, considered with reference
to the publick, ought very much to govern our con-
duct ; though I am far from slighting, when ap-
plied with discretion to those circumstances, ge-
neral principles, and maxims of policy. I cannot
help observing, however, that you have said rather
less upon the inapplicability of your own old
principles to the circumstances that are likely to
influence your conduct against these principles,
than of the general maxims of state, which I can
very readily believe not to have great weight with
you personally.
In my present state of imperfect information,
you will pardon the errours into which I may easily
fall. The principles you lay down are, " that the
" Roman catholicks should enjoy every thing un-
" der the state, but should not be the state it-
" self." And you add, " that when you exclude
" them from being a part of the state, you rather
" conform to the spirit of the age, than to any ab-
" stract doctrine;" but you consider the constitu-
tion as already established r-that our state is pro-
testant " It was declared so at the Revolution.
" It was so provided in the acts for settling the
" succession of the crown : the king's coronation
" oath was enjoined, in order to keep it so. The
" king, as first magistrate of the state, is obliged
" to
30& A LETTER TO
" to take the oath of abjuration*, and to subscribe
" the declaration ; and, by laws subsequent, every
" other magistrate and member of the state, legis-
" lative and executive, are bound under the same
" obligation."
As to the plan to which these maxims are ap-
plied, I cannot speak, as I told you, positively about
it. Because, neither from your letter, nor from
any information I have been able to collect, do I
find any thing settled, either on the part of the
Roman catholicks themselves, or on that of any
persons who may wish to conduct their affairs in
parliament. But if I have leave to conjecture,
something is in agitation towards admitting them,
under certain qualifications, to have some share in
the election of members of parliament. This I un-
derstand is the scheme of those who are entitled to
come within your description of persons of con-
sideration, property, and character; and firmly
attached to the king and constitution, as by " law
" established, with a grateful sense of your former
" concessions, and a patient reliance on the benig-
" nity of parliament, for the further mitigation of
" the laws that still affect them." As to the low,
thoughtless, wild and profligate, who have joined
themselves with those of other professions, but of
the same character ; you are not to imagine, that,
* A small errour of fact as to the abjuration oath ; but of
no importance in the argument.
for
Sill HERCULES LANGRtSHE, M. P. 303
for a moment, I can suppose them to be met with
any thing else than the manly and enlightened
energy of a firm government, supported by the
united efforts of all virtuous men, if ever their
proceedings should become so considerable as to
demand its notice. I really think that such asso-
ciations should be crushed in their very com-
mencement.
Setting, therefore, this case out of the question,
it becomes an object of very serious consideration,
whether, because wicked men of various descrip-
tions are engaged in seditious courses, the rational,
sober, and valuable part of one description should
not be indulged in their sober and rational expec-
tations ? You, who have looked deeply into the
spirit of the popery laws, must be perfectly sen-
sible, that a great part of the present mischief,
which we abhor in common (if it at all exists) has
arisen from them. Their declared object was to
reduce the catholicks of Ireland to a miserable
populace, without property, without estimation,
without education. The professed object was to
deprive the few men who, in spite of those laws,
might hold or obtain any property amongst them,
of all sort of influence or authority over the rest.
They divided the nation into two distinct bodies,
without common interest, sympathy, or connexion.
One of these bodies was to possess all the fran-
chises, all the property, all the education : the
other
304 A LETTEU TO
other was to be composed of drawers of water and
cutters of turf for them. Are we to be astonished,
when, by the efforts of so much violence in con-
quest, and so much policy in regulation, continued
without intermission for near an hundred years,
we had reduced them to a mob ; that, whenever
they came to act at all, many of them would act
exactly like a mob, without temper, measure, or
foresight ? Surely it might be just now a matter
of temperate discussion, whether you ought not to
apply a remedy to the real cause of the evil. If
the disorder you speak of be real and considerable,
you ought to raise an aristocratick interest ; that
is, an interest of property and education amongst
them : and to strengthen, by every prudent means,
the authority and influence of men of that de-
scription. It will deserve your best thoughts, to
examine whether this can be done without giving