with this fervent desire to fraternize and co-operate with you, we
form two parties ; one believing (and I was of that party) that we
had no Basis for forming an Alliance at home, after the passing



/



390 EVANGELICAL ALLIANCE.

of that Resolution. Brethren, who gave their votes for the Motion,
told me, that they viewed it with the most overwhelming regrets,
and believed that the worst of our fears are likely, in consequence,
to be realized — (cries of " No, no"). T will not refer to any indi-
vidual, but that is the fact. Many believe the enterprise is frus-
trated ; and that nothing can be done to form, under the name of the
Alliance, a more extended organization in the United States. My
conviction is, that it is impossible to gather, under such a banner, a
tenth of the sober Christianity, or a tenth of the sober Anti-
slavery feeling of the Northern States. Now, the other party, so
far as I know, think that we may entertain a little hope, and that
it will be possible, amidst exceeding difficulties, to form a partial
Alliance, embracing some considerable portion of the Northern
Churches ; yet they feel that they have conceded too much, and
that the prospect, therefore, is of the very faintest kind ; that, if
we do anything at all, it will be nothing worthy of our name. I
must, for myself, declare, that I cannot go home and hold up my
head, as forming an Alliance, or as attempting to form an Alliance,
on this Basis. With all my heart I have gone for the Alliance
itself. I have left home, and crossed the Atlantic for it ; and the
happiest period of my life has been the few days I have spent
here, before this most exciting element was thrown in among us.
But I feel now, that every man of us who has had anything to
do with this measure, must go home prepared to become the
scorn of the Papist and the Universalist. All the low feelings
of the Country will be raised against us. Its patriotism, its
nationalism, will be regarded as assailed. I believe the best thing
we can do (though I will not ask our friends to release us from
the agreement) is to have a second Alliance, which shall corre-
spond with yours, and hold as much union and intercourse as, in the
circumstances, we can. If we are unable to do more, I think that
is the next best thing which we can do. If neither can make
concessions, we leave it with God, and shall bear the burden, as He
shall enable us.

Mr. Justice Crampton. — Before I take my final departure
from this blessed room, allow me to make a few observations upon
this most momentous question. This Conference commenced in
great union ; it has advanced with great harmony, and I do trust
most sincerely — with my heart I say it, — that our American Bre-
thren will not separate from us in disunion. I trust that the Alli-
ance may be carried on to the intended and expected issue ; and
that its; enemies may not be able to say, that, on the very last day
of our assembling, disunion was found to prevail. I will not



ELEVENTH DAY MORNING SESSION. 391

yield to any one in this room, or from any Country, in the expres-
sion of my abhorrence of the system of Slavery in every form, and
in every shape, whether it be man-stealing, or man-dealing, or slave-
holding. I abhor it from my heart ; and while I say that, I do be-
lieve that there is not a gentleman who has come to this Country
from America — who has done us the great honour of coming here,
and giving us the advantage of his presence (and I believe we have
the lights of the American Church here), — I believe there is not
one who does not hold the same sentiments. But, while I take
credit to myself for being the opponent of Slavery, I cannot help
remembering, that the greatest transgressor on this matter has been
England herself. She was, perhaps, the originator — I do not
know the history sufficiently, but she was the great promoter, till
within a few years, of the importation of slaves — of the dealing in
slaves. She has indeed paid a penalty for it. She has given
twenty millions sterling to get rid of the blot of Slavery : but his-
tory reminds us, that she was the great offender on this head. Now,
Slavery does not exist at this moment in any part of the British
dominions. I do think, therefore, there is something in the Resolu-
tion brought up by the Committee on Saturday evening of a nature
calculated, in the way of contrast (it could not be intended), to cast
a reflection on America in particular. That, I am sure, was the last
thing in the minds of the Committee who prepared the Resolution ;
— the last thing that in this room I would desire to give a sanction
to. Might not the last clause of the Resolution be amended ?

The Chairman. — We cannot discuss a Resolution that has been
passed.

Mr. Justice C hampton. — Then I regret that that Resolution,
in its present shape, was introduced. This is not an Anti-slavery
Association. I am ready, at any proper time, to join in Anti-
slavery movements ; but, for the sake of Union, for the sake of this
Alliance, if it be not too late, I would, on every consideration, re-
move that, which may be considered, which may be understood, but
which never was intended to be, a reflection upon our noble
Brethren from America.

Rev. Dr. Morison. — 1 think we are in the position, in which
we must not do injustice to each other on either side of the ques-
tion. Certain statements have been, I think, made by our American
Brethren, which, if they go out, may put our English Brethren at
fault : and that should be avoided on both sides. It might appear,
from what our dear Brethren have said — and no man loves them
more than I have done, and no man has had more intercourse with
them than I have had, — that some little advantage has been taken



392 EVANGELICAL ALLIANCE.

of them. Now, really, it is due to the Conference to know, that
the Committee did adopt (this is a fact, and it cannot be changed),
did adopt the very Resolution which our American Friends brought
up. This is a fact ; I will not reason upon it. They may have dif-
ficulties about their own action, but they must not throw the
onus upon us. I did, in my conscience, believe, on Saturday
evening, that our American Friends had come to a conclusion
which they thoroughly approved. I would be strictly just to the
American Brethren ; I have a deep estimate of the difficulty that
presses on them : but, still, we must .do justice to Brethren here ;
and, if American Brethren are to part from us — (and I was surprised
to hear the prayer of my Friend this morning ; I had not heard
there was such absolute difficulty on the part of our American
Friends; I was surprised to find our Brother go to the throne of
Heaven, and speak of us as separated ; it did perplex me consider-
ably), — if our American Brethren feel still, that they cannot abide by
the Resolution that was brought up from the Committee, and which
we adopted with nothing but verbal alterations, and if they must
separate in consequence, they must not throw the heavy onus of
causing it upon us. It is a serious thing to separate.

Hon. and Rev. Baptist Noel. — I rise to order. None of our
American Brethren have said a word to show, that it is their inten-
tion to separate.

Rev. Dr. Morison. — Dr. Olin was on that Committee.

The Chairman. — I will explain. Dr. M orison referred to our
American Brethren, as having said, that they could not go on at
home, with the Resolution as it now stands.

Hon. and Rev. Baptist Noel. — The discussion has seemed to
me out of order. If Dr. Morison puts before the Meeting that
the American Brethren have brought up a Resolution, from which
they mean to dissent, that necessitates an explanation from our
American Brethren, and will involve us in a long discussion ; while
nothing has yet been said to that effect.

Rev. Dr. Morison. — If we are to part, it must be on grounds
such as shall not impeach Englishmen where they are not guilty.
If our American friends take the ground, that, having passed the
Resolution, they cannot act upon it, I have no objection to that:
but then the reflection will be upon our American Brethren.

Rev. Dr. S. H. Cox. — I do not rise to make a speech, but to ex-
plain, because my most excellent and beloved Brother Morison —
whom I expect to love more and more to all eternity, — Dr. Morison
alleges, that we do not stand to what we made ourselves, [[Cries of
li No, No."] That is my idea of the matter. But the history



ELEVENTH DAY — MORNING SESSION. 893

of the case is this. We made the Resolution as far as the word
"means." If you look at your papers, you will find that the sting
of it is in the tail. We made the Resolution as far as the word
"means," when we were a separate American Committee. Our
British Brethren sent out to our room, a document embracing tin;
rest of the Resolution, and we, upon the principle of agonizing
acquiescence, adopted it. Our honoured friend from Ireland, Mr.
Justice Crampton, has only done us justice; and I now understand
the propriety of the epithet of his office. He is "Justice " in that
indeed. The words in question are, " And in respect especially to
the system of Slavery, and every other form of oppression in any
country, the Alliance are unanimous in deploring them as in many
ways obstructing the progress of the Gospel, and express their con-
fidence that no Branch will admit to membership Slaveholders,
who, by their own fault, continue in that position, retaining their
fellow men in Slavery from regard to their own interests." All we
did was, to receive the Amendment of our British Brethren, and
to hook it on to ours, to make it rhetorically consist with our Resolu-
tion ; but we did did not originate that part of the Resolution.
Rev. Dr. Morison. — That is correct.

Rev. Dr. S. H. Cox. — I do not wish to violate the common
maxim : Stanlo partus.

Rev. Dr. Olin. — I seem to have been misunderstood. I do not
mean to throw blame upon any one. This Resolution was the
result of a compromise which was made to come to an agreement.
We trembled at the thought of introducing an obstruction, though
I protested against this Resolution from the first. I feel the most
overwhelming conviction, that nothing can be done under it in
America. I feel it would be looked upon as a want of confidence,
if we were afraid to unbosom ourselves before our fathers here ;
and therefore I have spoken as you have heard me. We have not
a suspicion with regard to one of the Brethren. We believe that
every one would make a sacrifice to retain us; but we should have
hard accounts to give, if we did not uncover our hearts before our
Brethren.

Hon. and Rev. Baptist Noel. — I do not know whether any
speeches of this sort can be made, after the Resolution has passed.
But, if subsequent proceedings do not give to our American Breth-
ren a full opportunity of unbosoming themselves, I think it will be
detrimental to the Alliance, and unfair to them. Let us, therefore,
at some future stage, hear everything that every American heart
wishes to pour out.

Rev. W. Bevan.— My opinion is, that such an opportunity will



394 EVANGELICAL ALLIANCE.

not occur again. We must take care, however, that in opening the
door to such communications, we are not thrown out of the course
of order.

Rev. Dr. Bunting. — I rise merely to say, that I think there is
a point at which this whole discussion may, and probably must,
come on again. That point is, after we have gone through the
examination of the details under the head of " Organization."
The Original Motion, that this series be adopted, will certainly bring
up this question in the minds of many of us — Whether, after hear-
ing what we shall hear from American Brethren, an GEcumenical
Alliance can be formed in connection with the American Churches,
if we stand on this Resolution. It may be our duty to move, that
we revert to the principle of a British Alliance. That, indeed,
would be the last thing which I could be brought to, even with the
hope that our American Brethren would form a similar Alliance on
such principles as they may think fit, and that we should hold such
communion together as might be found practicable. I shrink from
the very thought, after going so far, of giving up the beautiful idea
of a European, American, and Continental Alliance. But I think
the question will come up hereafter, fairly and properly.

Rev. W. Bevan. — I think we may, technically, be a little out of
course in receiving explanations from our American Brethren now:
but I apprehend, Sir, that, before you put this Resolution, you will
allow them an opportunity for the expression of their feelings : and
there may be this advantage in doing so — that some indication will
thereby be furnished, as to the course to be taken in reference to
the next point, — the question of " General Organization."

Hon. and Rev. Baptist Noel. — A Gentleman suggests, whether
the discussion will not more properly come on, under the second
proposition, No. III.?

" That, in furtherance of the above plan, it be recommended, for the present, that
a Branch be formed for each of the following districts, viz.: — The United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, exclusive of the British Colonies ; the
United States of America."

The question will then be raised, whether on this Basis, already
established, a Branch shall be formed in America, or whether our
American friends feel, that they cannot go forward on that Basis ?

A Member. — What is the Motion now before us?

The Chairman. — It is, where the Resolution of Saturday
evening should be placed? — whether as No. I., under the head of
General Organization, or among the Miscellaneous Resolutions?

S. E. Morse, Esq. — I wish to make a single remark with regard
to the constitution of the Committee which reported on Saturday.



ELEVENTH DAY MORNIXO SESSION. ,'J95

The American" Members were not tlie Representatives of* the
American Members of this Conference. They were not appointed

by the American Members. They were appointed by the Con-
ference ; and I believe I speak the sentiments of rive at least of
their number, who were utterly opposed to the introduction of the
word ff Slavery," or " Slave-holding" into any Resolution, or into
anything connected with this Alliance.

Rev. A. D. Campbell. — I wish, on the part of myself and of
my beloved Brethren in the Church of England, to prevent the
impression from going abroad, that we, in reality, cordially agree in
the Resolution adopted by the Conference on Saturday. I felt it
was inconvenient to the Alliance, to have this subject of Slavery
brought up in it at all ; and I regret exceedingly the adoption of a
Resolution strictly Anti- Slavery.

The Chairman. — I cannot allow the merits to be discussed.

Rev. A. D. Camtbell. — The only thing that will satisfy my
mind is, to have the Resolution collocated as now proposed. It
would be a matter of gratification to me, and of satisfaction to a
large number of the Members of the Alliance, if it could disappear
entirely from the face of our proceedings. (Cries of "No ! no !")
A Society, originating in the Alliance, though not formally con-
nected with it, has been formed this morning for a special purpose :
why could not a great Society — a great Evangelical Anti -Slavery
Society, with a similar relation to the Alliance, be also originated ?
Our American Brethren might thus go back to their country
unfettered by the Resolution which we have adopted. I fear that,
if the Resolution appears on the face of our proceedings, the effect
will be to destroy the (Ecumenical character of the Alliance.

The Chairman. — I cannot allow any question to be raised as to
the erasure, or obliteration from the records, of any act that has
been performed. There may be a question as to the place in the
records which it is to occupy : but stand it must.

Rev. Dr. Beecher. — I wish to make a few remarks, that our
position may be understood. I felt extremely anxious to see this
Alliance formed : but I confess, that, after the adoption of the
Birmingham Resolution, I saw very great difficulty in the way ;
and, every day that I have attended this Conference, I have been
more and more convinced of the obstacles to our forming such an
Alliance. I could wish on that account, (and I early suggested the
idea to some Members of this Conference) that we should have, not
a General Alliance, but an Independent Alliance in each country
whose representatives might meet from time to time ; and, on
Saturday, in the sitting of the large Committee of which I was a



396 EVANGELICAL ALLIANCE.

Member, I repeated this idea. I am convinced, that it is the only
practicable plan in present circumstances, and I believe it is the
true way to a deep interest on the subject. I said all I could, in
the Committee, to bring about such a coincidence of views as would
enable us to work together. For that end I laboured hard, by
suggesting one alteration after another in the various plans brought
before us — in order to see, if we could not effect an agreement.
As Dr. Cox has stated, w r e were unanimous in a. Resolution which we
presented to the English Brethren. They urged us to re-consider
it ; and, after a while, a proposition came down to us from them,
which embraced the latter part of the Resolution finally submitted
on Saturday. We did re-consider our portion of it. We laboured
a long time upon this recommendation, and upon that suggestion.
We did all we could to bring the whole Resolution into such a state
as we thought would make it practicable. And, when we adopted
it in its final shape, the only consideration that influenced us to
vote for it, at least that influenced those who did vote for
it (for I did not, though I sought to have it as unexception-
able as possible), was the assurance, that the Alliance could not
be formed, unless we yielded something, and that this was considered
the least which could be asked at our hands. What were we to do ?
We all stood in amazement. We did not wish to be the means of
preventing the formation of the Alliance,— even if, after it was
formed, we could not go with it. I will venture to say, that there
were not five, out of the twenty or twenty-five Americans upon the
Committee, who conceded the point with entire good-will. We
all felt, that the Resolution was injudicious ; and we did regret beyond
measure, that the subject of Slavery had been introduced here. It
has been the ruin, as I fear, of the whole cause. If you go on
upon this basis, the result, as it seems to me, will simply be, that
you make it altogether an Abolition movement in America. That,
I dare say, some men have wished. I have not the least doubt,
that there are some men in this Country from America, who would
endeavour to move heaven, and earth, and hell, in order to bring
about that state of things : but we do not wish to have it so. I do
not doubt that you could form, in America, in connexion with this
Institution, on its present basis, an Alliance that would embrace
some venerable Churches and excellent men : but I assert, without
hesitation, that, in the present state of things, three-fourths of our
Churches cannot go with it. I do not believe they will go with it.
Look at the ground occupied by the American Board of Missions ;
a Society supported by the Congregationalists, by the New School
Presbyterians, by the Old School Presbyterians, by the Dutch



ELEVENTH DAY — M0&N1NG BE88ION. 397

Reformed Church, by the Lutheran Church, and by others. Look
at the ground taken at their Meeting, last fall. It shows you pre-
cisely, what the great majority of our Churches hold on this subject;
and they will not be driven from it easily, or because you have
pressed it. How can these Churches come into the Alliance, if
formed on the Basis you recommend ? I do not believe they will.
We cannot form such an Alliance there, if it must have an Anti-
Slavery character. Better for us' to attempt forming independent
Alliances, in England, and in other Countries, and to have a Union
once in three or seven years. In this way you would avoid all
these difficulties.

Rev. Dr. Massie. — I think it important to state, that the
English Brethren in the Committee had not read a line of the
paper presented by the American Brethren, till they had come
to the conclusion submitted to them, after very prayerful, anxious
thought. I told them so at the time, that they might not suppose
we wished to steal a march upon them.

Rev. Dr. S. H. Cox. — We never supposed it.

Rev. Dr. Massie. — We were desirous to get an independent
deliverance first, and then to take into consideration their paper.
They know, that their Brethren in the British portion of the Com-
mittee, are men who love their American Brethren, and who sought
to reconcile differences as far as they possibly could. But we felt,
many of us at least, all through the matter, that the Alliance
could be an (Ecumenical one, only by concessions from England,
Ireland, and Scotland. From my own knowledge of my Brethren
in Scotland, being a Scotchman myself, and from my intimate
acquaintance with the Brethren of the Denomination to which I
belong in England, I will say, that we have reached the limit of con-
cession. It is utterly impossible, after the subject has been mooted
here, for us to go back from that Resolution. It is perfectly
impossible. We must leave ; — we are prepared to leave now.

The Chairman. — Dr. Massie had better not go into the question
of withdrawment. What is done, cannot be undone.

Captain Young. — I simply rise to ask, in consequence of the
observation made, on two or three occasions,, by the Chair, — whether
there is a determination to resist any change upon what has been
done? or, whether it is, in point of fact, incompetent to rescind or
alter what has been done, even where there is a unanimous or
general wish to do so? There is a difference between the power to
do so, and the will.

The Chairman. — It has been said that Parliament is omnipotent;
omnipotent to stultify itself, as well as to do anything else. On



398 EVANGELICAL ALLIANCE.

the same principle, this Conference is omnipotent to undo what it
has done. Physically, it is possible; sensibly, I should say, not. But,
until I have a Motion before the Chair, that the whole proceedings
of Saturday be rescinded, I cannot allow the question to be opened.

Rev. R. Eckett. — I ask you, Sir, whether it is competent for
any Gentleman to make such a Motion, without the unanimous
consent of the Conference ?

The Chairman. —When such a Motion is made, if made it be,
which I do not anticipate, it will then be for the House to deal
with it. But, without a Motion, I cannot allow the Question to
be discussed in speeches.

Rev. Dr. Massie. — Our Brethren from America will, I think,
give us credit for endeavouring to meet their feelings in Com-
mittee ; and I can assure them, that we do not wish to take
advantage of them, from the manner in which we submitted our
proposition to them on Saturday. I think, too, that some of them
will bear me witness, that I recommended them individually to be
in no haste in coming to their conclusion. But I wish them also
to see, that we too have our difficulties in the matter. I have con-
scientiously, and in love to the Brethren, felt myself constrained to
abstain from putting forth an argument in reference to the right of
the negro, in order not to hurt the feelings of our Brethren ; but let
them not suppose, that we can stave off the predicament in which we
are placed. An allusion, in the tone of complaint, has been made to
the introduction, at this time, of the Question of Slavery. The
Question was introduced at Birmingham, — and there it was made a
test of admission. We have all convened on the knowledge of that
fact ; and, therefore, it has not been obtruded upon us here. As
to the place which it should occupy in our documents, I do not
argue on that point. We have been forced to bring it up here. I
think, from the nature of the " Organization " proposed by our
American Brethren, we anticipated difficulty in reference to the
Question of Slavery, in our large preparatory Business Committee.
We, in the paper, therefore, which we prepared, avoided anything
like a conclusion about the (Ecumenical character of the Alliance :
that point we left to this Meeting. It has introduced the CEcu-
menical Question : and, if there be difficulty, it arises from what has
taken place in the Conference itself, and not from what was done
by those who prepared for it. I should like to see the Alliance