find time to take in the prospective developments of British Columbia.
When I went to Winnipeg in the winter of 1879-80, there was no
railway across Red River, and the North-West was practically un-
known. For years after there was no idea of exporting from that
country. In fact, so lately as 1888 it was necessary for me to go into
the State of Minnesota, on behalf of the Manitoba Provincial Govern-
ment, to purchase seed grain for the settlers, while just previous to
that we had to import flour for the needs of the population. That
was seven years ago. To-day I see in the Canadian Gazette that
the President of the Winnipeg Produce Exchange estimates last
year's crop of grain in the Canadian North-West at thirty million
bushels, half of which was available for export. Lord Dufferin
prophesied, and his prophecy has certainly proved a correct one.
What will be the future, measured by the past, it were difficult to
say ; but if the other provinces supply horses, cattle, eggs, and
cheese, as Lord Aberdeen has pointed out, we may fisdrly believe
that the Canadian North-West will be the principal granary of the
British Empire. Going further west, we find on the shores of the
Pacific a country that is to all intents and purposes simply a duplicate
of this island of Great Britain. There, in a concentrated way, you
have all the variety you possess in Great Britain. In Canada itself
things are laid out wholesale, so to speak — enormous tracts of forest
and vast ranges of mineral-bearing rock and prairie. In British
Columbia you have cultivated land, forests, and minerals— for there
is coal, iron, and the precious metals — all within reasonable reach
and touch of one another, while the climate is a counterpart of the
climate of this island. I have no doubt myself that the development
of this region, consequent on the opening of the railway and of the
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Canada, 158
mail-routes to which Sir George Baden-Powell has alluded, will be
more wonderful than anything that has taken place in any other part
of Canada. Some enterprises have been begun there and are going
on satisfactorily, such as farming, saw-milling, and mining, but
there is one industry that is practically untouched, and that will
probably be one of the most prominent sources of wealth to the
country — that is, the fisheries of British Columbia. On the Atlantic
sea-board there are some sixty-eight thousand men employed in the
deep-sea fisheries, while on the coasts of British Columbia, which
ai*e admittedly as prolific as those of the Atlantic, there is practi-
cally no deep-sea fishing at all. The only organised industry of this
kind is the salmon fishing, which employs a good many men, and
is an enterprise confined to the rivers — probably not more than six
hundred or eight hundred are engaged in deep-sea work, while on
the Atlantic sea-board, as I have said, some sixty-eight thousand men
are employed. We may reasonably expect that this source of wealth
will be tapped in the near future, and will make a tremendous
addition to the revenues of Canada. In connection with this matter,
I am pleased to understand that efforts are being made to transfer to
British Columbia a number of fishermen from the congested districts
round the Scotch coast. It seems the most profitable way, probably,
of solving the difficulty here and of at the same time aiding Canada
to develop her latent resources. Another point of interest to those
concerned in Imperial defence, and in protecting the points of arrival
and departure on our ocean highways, is that a large number of
fishermen around the coast of Scotland are Naval Reserve men. If,
for example, under the scheme imder consideration at the present
time, only one member of each family proposed to be sent to British
Columbia is a member of the Boyal Naval Eeservo, we should have
in the neighbourhood of Esquimault a brigade of at least a thousand
trained men when that scheme is completed — a matter, I think, of
no small importance in connection with Imperial defence. In con-
clusion, as one who has made Canada the land of his adoption, I
beg to thank Lord Aberdeen for the kind words he has uttered con-
cerning us.
The Hon. Sir Arthub H. Gordon, G.C.M.G. : On the American
continent time flies fast. Cities are built, railroads are extended,
forests are felled, agriculture spreads with a rapidity unknown to us
in the more slow-going countries of Europe. As a quarter of a
century, which is no inconsiderable period even with us in the Old
World, has passed since I had any official connection with British
North America, I should have thought I was entirely out of the ruu-
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154 Canada.
ning for saying anything here to-night. But, as I suppose, if one of
our ancestors of the reign of Queen Anne (which I take to be about
a parallel distance from us here as thirty years is in Canada) were
with us to-night, though ho could tell us nothing of what is going
on in the Victorian era, he would express his pleasure at what he
heard of it ; so, having Uved once in Canada for some years, I may
be allowed to share the sentiments of those who live there now in
thanking Lord Aberdeen for the interesting paper he has given us.
1 beUeve no one who has lived any length of time in the Dominion
of Canada can fail to love it. It is a country full of attmctious to
those who are fortunate enough to Uvo in it. What struck me most
in what I have heard this evening, not only from my noble relative,
but from the most interesting and lucidly conveyed statement of
Major Clark, and what I think would strike other old fogies who
were officials in Canada before the days of Confederation, is the
number of new industries that have been mentioned. That is a
great sign the country is alive and going forward. You, my lord,
have been good enough to say that I was in Canada, or, at least, in
the British provinces at the time of the Confederation, and had
some slight hand in bringing about its consummation. I confess
that at that time, although I looked on the confederation of these
provinces as a great and a good work, I w*as not entirely without
misgiving as to the manner in which its practical operation might
be felt in some parts of the Dominion ; I am bound to say that all
those apprehensions have been entirely and fortunately disappointed.
I think the history of tlie Dominion is one of which the authors of
the scheme may well be proud. 1 know no Government which has
worked with more success or with less friction — none which has
left the rights of the individual more tree and untouched and yet
has preserved the essentials of a strong and real Government. No
doubt, in some respects, the Dominion has been fortunate. It has
been fortunate in the succession of those who have presided as
Governors-General. It has been fortunate in the spirit which has
animated both the political parties which divide the country. It
has been fortunate, too — I may be permitted to say so, as being
wholly independent of parties in Canada — in some of the statesmen
of Canada who have assisted in the working of that Government.
It is thirty years since I first went there, but even before that time
my old friend — one of the most eminent men who has been Gover-
nor-General, Sir Edmund Head — told me he had a very remarkable
man as his Prime Minister. Well : that man is Prime Minister still !
Just fancy ! At the time when Louis Napoleon was Emperor of
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Canada. 165
the French, when Bismarck had not been heard of, when Italy was
not united, when Lord Pahnerston was Prime Minister of England,
Sir John A. Macdonald was Prime Minister of Canada ; and now,
after an interval of more than thirty years, though not without
intervals — generally short ones — he is still at the head of the
Government. That shows a great deal. It shows not only that
the man is a remarkable man, but what are the self-restraints and
governing instincts of the people who have chosen to entrust their
destinies to his guidance. And now, my Lord Marquis, I have done
your bidding, and as I have only obeyed your commands I owe no
apology to the meeting. It is for you to apologise to it for having
subjected it to the infliction of a speech certainly conveying no in-
formation, and which must, I fear, be admitted to be only an object-
less and fruitless waste of its time.
The Bight Hon. Lord Brabsey, K.C.B. : I presume the noble
Chairman has called upon me because a few days ago I made a com-
munication to a public journal with reference to an exp^iment in
colonisation in Canada. The subject of colonisation is now very
much under pubUc consideration, and I thought any experience of a
practical nature should be made public for general information. 1
regret that my story was in some sense the story of a failure, but I
desire to say that the causes of that failure were not in any sense
connected with the want of resources and openings in Canada for
emigrants from this country. Our failure was due to the nature of
the agreements made— agreements which can easily be remedied
now we have had experience, and the failure was still more due to
the want of adequate personal super\ision. I am glad to say that
all the persons who were emigrated under the auspices of the
company with which I am connected have found in Canada a home
in which they are prosperous, that every person who was sent out
is now in profitable employment, and that, in short, he has no
cause to regret his journey from the old country to the new. I feel
deeply impressed with the necessity of effective personal supervision
in order to secure success in colonisation. I have this afternoon
been in communication with a gentleman well known in connection
with successful colonisations — Mr. Arnold White. With his assist-
ance I mean to make another effort, and I have no doubt that, with
more experience and the good advice of Mr. White, I shall be able
to make a communication of a more satisfactory nature than the
one I have recently addressed to the columns of the Times. I
should like to refer in a sentence to what fell from Sir George Baden-
Powell as to the desirability — nay, the necessity— of establishing a
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156 Canada.
thorough communication from this country to Austraha by the
Canadian Pacific route. I am glad to be able to say that steps of a
practical nature are now being taken with a view to carrying out at
an early day the grand scheme shadowed forth by Sir George Baden-
Powell, and I hope that at the proper time the Imperial Oovem-
ment will look with favour on the undertaking and grant us some
assistance.
Mr. J. G. CoLiiEB, C.M.G. : The gratitude which Canadians
will feel for Lord Aberdeen's excellent paper — which I could wish
had been a Uttle longer — will not be in any way lessened by the
fact that the chair is occupied by the Marquis of Lome, who,
during his official connection with the country, endeared himself to
all Canadians. There is only one point in the paper to which I
would specially refer, and that rather by way of amplification than
criticism. The noble lord mentions that the number of emigrants
proceeding to Canada by the St. Lawrence route in 1889 was
27,000. As it might appear that that is the actual extent of the
emigration to Canada, I may be allowed to explain that there are
other routes by which emigrants travel, notably by way of the
United States ; and as a matter of fact, the total number of settlers
in the year mentioned is given in the official reports of the Minister
of Agriculture as being between 70,000 and 80,000 — that is, after
deducting the number of passengers who travelled through Canada
on their way to the Western States. Although the country is much
better known now than was the case some years ago, there is still
a good deal of misapprehension prevalent as to its extent, its
resources, and its climate, and Canadians like nothing better than
to be visited by men ** of light and leading,'* especially when, as in
Lord Aberdeen's case, they give the public the benefit of their im-
pressions on their return. Canadians have one weakness, or
perhaps it should be described as a source of strength — that is, that
they are proud of and enthusiastic about their country, and I think
most of the people who have been there will feel they are quite
justified in that feeling. Every one who visits the country brings
away the pleasantest recollections, and most of the visitors, I
beUeve, go back again. I hope we may expect another visit from
the noble lord before long, because I see he has purchased a
property in the country, and I am sure when he returns he will
receive a warm welcome. The progress which Canada has made
in the last ten or fifteen years is not always realised in this country.
So recently as ton years ago the eastern part of Canada was
practically separated from the west. There was no communication
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Canada. 157
except through the States, but now we find all the provinces bound
together by that great means of civilisation and progress — ^the rail-
way. And I should like to mention that the policy which led to the
construction of the great line had in view not only that result, but
something equally important, and that was the making of Canada
as important a Power on the Pacific as she has always been on the
Atlantic. It is only natural that the completion of the railway
should not have been allowed to end that great work. Before its
completion arrangements were made for steamship communication
between China, Japan, and British Columbia, while to-day — very
appropriately in view of this meeting— the first steamer of the
new service left Liverpool for the East to inaugurate that new
service, which will be superior to anything which has ever
been seen in that part of the Pacific. I may say that the
fast steamers on this service are to be built under Admiralty super-
vision, and that they are subsidised by the Imperial and Dominion
Governments. Again, the Canadians have expressed themselves
willing to subsidise a service between British Columbia and
Australia, and have taken the keenest possible interest also in
the cable communication between those two countries. If Aus-
tralia will only second the efforts we are making, we shall before
long have both steamship and cable communication between Canada
and Australia, which will not only connect them, but extend their
trading faciUties and complete the British line of communication
round the world; for in Australia, China, and Japan they will
be in connection with other lines of steamers plying to Europe by
the Cape or the Suez Canal. I beUeve, for these reasons, that
the progress of Canada will be greater in the future than in
the past, and it is not going to be interrupted by McEinley tariffs
or anything of that sort. In her desire to open up new markets,
Canada has promised a large subsidy towards the establishment
of a very fast line of steamers across the Atlantic between Great
Britain and Canada; and already lines of steamers subsidised
by the Canadian Government are plying regularly between the
maritime provinces and the West Indies, by which means and by
the excellent representation of Canada at the Jamaica Exhibition
we hope the trade with these important Colonies will be largely in-
creased. The great want of Canada at the present time is population.
In Great Britain and other countries the congestion of population
is giving rise to social questions of the gravest import. In Canada
the population is still a small one. It numbers at the present time,
I suppose from five to six milUons at the outside, and yet we have
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158 Canada,
hundreds of millions of acres of tbe most fertile lands in the World
simply waiting for people to cultivate them. In the past, no doubt,
Canada has been somewhat overshadowed in the race for immi-
grants by her big neighbour to the south, but I believe that
emigrants from this country will find in Canada all the advantages
which the United States can offer, together with the inestimable
benefit of still being under the British flag. It will be remembered
that certain tenant-farmer delegates were invited by the Canadian
Government to visit that country last autunm, and I do not think I
am divulging any secret when I say that their reports, most of
which have now been written, are of an extremely favourable nature.
The Government is offering considerable bonuses to actual settlers
on land in the Manitoba North- West and British Columbia, and it
is hoped by these means to increase the number of agricultural
settlers who now annually make their way to Canada. It only re-
mains to say to those people for whom Canada offers so many
advantages, that they will find a warm welcome in the Dominion,
no matter to what part they may go. They will not be strangers.
They will find there— what is not perhaps fally reahsed — the same
language, the same laws, the same customs, and above all, notwith-
standing anything that has been said, the same loyalty that exists
in the Mother Coimtry. There is no doubt whatever as to the
loyalty of Canadians. It has been more than once stated that no
candidate would be elected to the Dominion House of Commons who
was known to advocate annexation to the United States, and people
have gone so far as to say that no man would be elected as village
policeman who held such views. I finnly beUeve that Canada will
remain, as she is now, one of the great bulwarks of the British
Empire. I cannot see that any other result is possible when we
consider that the French Canadians are among the most loyal of
Her Majesty's subjects, and that, in addition, the remaining part of
the population is largely composed of descendants of those grand
men who, after the Declaration of Independence of the United States,
removed to Canada rather than give up their allegiance to the
British Crown.
The Rev. George Hill, D.C.L., Nova Scotia : Bom in Canada
and resident there sixty years, I have heard with great delight the
sentiments which have been expressed with regard to Canadian
loyalty. I beheve I echo the feelings of the overwhelming majority
of the people when I say that they cherish the deepest loyalty to
the Sovereign of these realms, and would be ready, as Englishmen
always are, to lay down their hves in defence of the Crown and
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Canada. 159
country. It is too late now to attempt to discuss the paper, but
there is one point to which I may allude, \'iz, the produce of the
country. His lordship, Tvith admirable terseness and accuracy, has
mentioned several of the products, but there is one to which I would
like to call special attention as interesting the maritime provinces,
and that is fruit. I verily believe that in no country in the world
do they raise better apples and pears than in Nova Scotia. In the
spring I have ridden through miles of apple blossom, and in the
autumn through miles of these same orchards glowing with mag-
nificent fruit. These apples are so mixed up with our neighbours'
that they generally pass as American. Now, we as a people do
not like to be called Americans. We are Americans just as EngUsh-
men are Europeans, and not more so. We like our national title,
and so with regard to our apples. I do wish that those who take
any interest in Canada would, when they are invited to purchase
American apples, inquire whether they are not Canadian ; for by so
doing you would spread their reputation and add to our sources of
revenue.
Sir Frederick Young, K.C.M.G. : Before the discussion is
brought to a close, may I be allowed to point out, for the sake of ac-
curacy, that Sir George Baden-Powell, in the course of his very excel-
lent speech, twice mentioned that the Reciprocity Treaty of " 1854 "
between Canada and the United States was abrogated in " 1886 " ?
That, of course, was a slip, the real date being " 186G." Then with
regard to our map — ** Mercator's Projection " — I feel somewhat
sensitive on that score, because in the early days of the Institute I
had a personal responsibility in the matter. Of course the map is
now rather behind the age, but still it senes to fulfil its intended
object of giving a rough idea of the extent and vastness of the
British Colonial Empire on the surface of the globe. I hope that
one of tliese days we shall be able to hang on the walls also a map
more like what we should perhaps desire to see. I cannot forbear
taking this opportunity of saving with what interest I have
listened to the very valuable address delivered by the noble Earl.
And in regard to the reference which was made in the discussion
which followed the subject of fruit-growing, I may say that none
of you can fail to remember the magnificent exhibition of Cana-
dian fruit products at South Kensington some few years ago at the
Colonial Exhibition. It impressed me very much indeed. There
wore no fewer than 1,000 diflferent specimens of Canadian apples
shown on that occasion. On this point I entirely agree with the
reverend gentleman who has just spoken, that over and over again
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IGO Canada.
these apples are designated American by fruiterers in England,
when, as a matter of fact, they are not so. It is only just to
Canada the fact should be known, and recognised by the trade.
The GHAiRifAN : You will all echo the sentiments which have
been expressed by Sir Frederick Young and others with regard to the
paper which Lord Aberdeen has read. The paper referred to the
great natural resources of Canada, and touched also on the rather
burning question of tariff arrangements. In speaking of the Colonies
we must always remember that they have not got into our delightful
way of positively liking to pay income-tax. An Englishman would
hardly know himself unless he could anathematise all human beings
who do not call themselves free-traders, and who do not pay income-
tax. The Colonies do not quite see matters in the same light. I do
not know that these tariffs, even the McEinley tariff, are always so
formidable as they appear on paper. I remember some time ago
hearing of an American customs officer who, after having performed
his duty very diligently along part of the frontier, went and asked
to have something added to his salary. He was coolly refused, and
when he asked why, the answer was that he had been doing the
very thing the Government did not wish him to do, viz., keeping
the Customs line too strictly. I believe, in spite of tariff arrange-
ments, that the sentiment which unites Canada to the Mother
Country will always survive. It will survive partly, at all events,
because every child throughout that vast territory reads in his school
primers of the wars fought by his fathers to preserve the connection
and uphold the Union Jack, and if you want the best form of Im-
perial Federation, I hope you will always look to your school primers
on historical subjects. We value the connection, because we are
proud of our sons, and believe they will stand by us whenever we
find ourselves, as the saying is, in a hole. But there is no doubt
that these questions of tariffs are not quite imderstood in England.
As soon as we hear of the raising of rates against British commerce
we are rather apt to think the act is unfriendly. There is no doubt
that the first effect is to raise round that country what old John Bright
used to call a Chinese wall ; but there are other considerations which
will overleap that barrier in the case of a coimtry having great
natural resources like Canada, because our countrymen will always
look to the vast resources to be developed, and will remember that
the more they are developed by his own capital being lent to them,
the more ultimately will come back to his pocket ; and I do not think,
in the case of those countries having great natural resources, we
need make ourselves uncomfortable because they wish to go in for a
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Canada. 161
little protection. It is a very good thing when Englishmen of
eminence go and make themselves acquainted with the Colonies, and
show them that they are apt to look not only at the interests of
England, but at the interests of the Empire as a whole ; and al-
though it may be some time before our Colonies are directly repre-
sented in the Government organisation here — although the time will
come, I hope, when they will be represented by some machinery
that I need not now specialise, — in the meantime a very good pre-
cursor of that representation is to be found in men like Lord