and I think this may be properly classed with the elk,
the principal difference being in the horns. I have
seen the Daim, the Cerf, the Chevreuil of Europe.
But the animal we call Elk, and which may be dis-
tinguished as the Round-horned elk, is very different
from them. I have never seen the Brand-hirtz or
Cerf d'Ardennes, nor the European elk. Could I get
a sight of them I think I should be able to say to
which of them the American elk resembles most, as
I am tolerably well acquainted with that animal. I
must observe also that the horns of the Deer, which
accompany these spoils, are not of the fifth or sixth
part of the weight of some that I have seen. This
individual has been of age, according to our method
of judging. I have taken measures particularly to be
furnished with large horns of our elk & our deer, &
therefore beg of you not to consider those now sent
as furnishing a specimen of their ordinary size. I
really suspect you will find that the Moose, the
1787] THOMAS JEFFERSON. 459
Round horned elk, & the American deer are species
not existing in Europe. The Moose is perhaps of a
new class. I wish these spoils, Sir, may have the
merit of adding anything new to the treasures of
nature which have so fortunately come under your
observation, & of which she seems to have given you
the key : they will in that case be some gratification
to you, which it will always be pleasing to me to
have procured, having the honor to be with senti-
ments of the most perfect esteem & respect, Sir, your
most obedient, & most humble servant.
TO THE GOVERNOR OF SOUTH CAROLINA.
(JOHN RUTLEDGE). j. MSS.
PARIS Oct. 4, 1787.
SIR, I am informed that the persons having claims
against the state of South Carolina on account of the
frigate of the same name, have appointed Mr. Cut-
ting their attorney for settling those claims with the
state. It becomes my duty therefore to inform you
that a claim of the state against the court of Spain
for services performed by that frigate was transmitted
to me the last spring by Mr. Jay, together with the
papers on which it was founded, & that I was in-
structed to forward the same to Mr. Carmichael at
Madrid to be sollicited by him, and at the same time
to confer with the Prince of Luxemburg on the
subject & engage the assistance of the French am-
bassador at Madrid in the sollicitation. All this was
done, and I have lately received a letter from Mr.
460 THE WRITINGS OF [1787
Carmichael inclosing the copy of one from the Count
de Florida Blanca by which it appears that the court
of Spain has referred the adjustment of your claim to
Mr. Gardoqui & your delegates at New York, where
perhaps the whole business maybe most conveniently
settled. In my conference with the Prince of Lux-
emburg I undertook to quiet his mind by assurances
which I knew I might make with truth, that the state
of South Carolina would settle his claim finally with
justice & honor, & would take measures for paying
it as soon as their situation would permit. A recent
instance of arrangements taken in a like case by the
state of Maryland has had a good effect in counter-
acting those calumnies against us which our enemies
on the other side the channel disseminate indus-
triously through all Europe.
TO JAMES MADISON. 1 j. MSS.
PARIS Oct. 8, 1787.
DEAR SIR, The bearer hereof the Count de
Moustier, successor to Monsr de la Luzerne, would
from his office need no letter of introduction to you
or to anybody. Yet I take the liberty of recom-
mending him to you to shorten those formal ap-
proaches which the same office would otherwise
expose him to in making your acquaintance. He is
a great enemy to formality, etiquette, ostentation &
luxury. He goes with the best dispositions to culti-
vate society without poisoning it by ill example. He
1 Parts in italic are in cipher in original.
1787] THOMAS JEFFERSON. 461
is sensible, disposed to view things favorably, &
being well acquainted with the constitution of Eng-
land, it's manners & language, is the better prepared
for his station with us. But I should have performed
only the lesser, & least pleasing half of my task, were
I not to add my recommendations of Madame de Bre-
han. She is goodness itself. You must be well ac-
quainted with her. You will find her well disposed to
meet your acquaintance & well worthy of it. The way
to please her is to receive her as an acquaintance of a
thousand years' standing. She speaks little English.
You must teach her more, and learn French from her.
She hopes by accompanying Monsieur de Moustier
to improve her health which is very feeble, & still
more to improve her son in his education & to re-
move him to a distance from the seductions of this
country. You will wonder to be told that there are
no schools in this country to be compared to ours, in
the sciences. The husband of Madame de Brehan
is an officer, & obliged by the times to remain with
the army. Monsieur de Moustier brings your watch.
I have worn it two months and really find her a most
incomparable one. She will not want the little re-
dressing which new watches generally do after going
about a year. She costs 600 livres. To open her in
all her parts, press the little pin on the edge, with
the point of your nail, that opens the chrystel, then
open the dial plate in the usual way, then press the
stem, at the end within the loop, & it opens the back
for winding up or regulating.
De Moustier is remarkably communicative. With
462 THE WRITINGS OF [1787
adroitness he may be pumped of anything. His open-
ness is from character, not from affectation. An inti-
macy with him may, on this account be politically valu-
able.
TO JOHN JAY. j. MSS.
PARIS Nov 3, 1787.
SIR, I shall take the liberty of confiding some-
times to a private letter such details of the small
history of the court or cabinet as may be worthy of
being known, and yet not proper to be publicly com-
municated. I doubt whether the administration is
yet in a permanent form. The Count de Montmorin
& Baron de Breteuil are I believe firm enough in
their places. It was doubted whether they would
wait for the count de la Lucerne, if the war had taken
place ; but at present I suppose they will. I wish it
also ; because M. de Hector, his only competitor,
has on some occasions shewn little value for the con-
nection with us. Lambert, the Comptroller general
is thought to be very insecure. I should be sorry
also to lose him. I have worked several days with
him, the M. de la Fayette, and Monsr. du Pont
(father of the young gentleman gone to America
with the Count de Moustier) to reduce into one
arret whatever concerned our commerce. I have
found him a man of great judgment & application,
possessing good general principles on subjects of com-
merce, & friendly dispositions towards us. He passed
the arret in a very favorable form, but it has been
opposed in the council, & will I fear suffer some
1787] THOMAS JEFFERSON. 463
alteration in the article of whale oil. That of tobacco,
which was put into a separate instrument, experiences
difficulties also, which do not come from him. Mr.
du Pont has rendered us essential service on these
occasions. I wish his son could be so well noticed as
to make a favorable report to his father ; he would I
think be gratified by it, & his good dispositions be
strengthened, & rendered further useful to us.
Whether I shall be able to send you these regula-
tions by the present packet, will depend on their
getting thro' the council in time. The Archbishop
continues well with his patroness. Her object is, a
close connection with her brother. I suppose he
convinces her that peace will furnish the best occa-
sions of cementing that connection. It may not be
uninstructive to give you the origin & nature of his
influence with the queen. When the D. de Choiseul
proposed the marriage of the dauphin with this lady,
he thought it proper to send a person to Vienna to
perfect her in the language. He asked his friend the
Archbishop of Toulouse to recommend to him a
proper person. He recommended a certain Abbe.
The Abbe, from his first arrival at Vienna, either
tutored by his patron, or prompted by gratitude, im-
pressed on the queen's mind the exalted talents and
merit of the Archbishop, and continually represented
him as the only man fit to be placed at the helm of
affairs. On his return to Paris, being retained near
the person of the queen, he kept him constantly in
her view. The Archbishop was named of the assembly
des notables, had occasion enough there to prove his
464 THE WRITINGS OF [1787
talents, & count de Vergennes his great enemy, dying
opportunely, the Queen got him into place. He uses
the abbe even yet, for instilling all his notions into
her mind. That he has imposing talents, and pa-
triotic dispositions I think is certain. Good judges
think him a theorist only, little acquainted with
the details of business & spoiling all his plans
by a bungled execution. He may perhaps undergo
a severe trial. His best actions are exciting against
him a host of enemies, particularly the reduction of
the pensions & reforms in other branches of economy.
Some think the other ministers are willing he should
stay in till he has effected this odious, yet necessary
work, & that they will then make him the scape-goat
of the transaction. The declarations too which I
send you in my public letter, if they should become
public, will probably raise an universal cry. It will
all fall on him, because Montmorin & Breteuil say
without reserve, that the sacrifice of the Dutch has
been against their advice. He will perhaps not per-
mit these declarations to appear in this country.
They are absolutely unknown, they were communi-
cated to me by the D. of Dorset, and I believe no
other copy has been given here. They will be pub-
lished, doubtless, in England, as a proof of their
triumph, & may thence make their way into this
country. If the premier can stem a few months, he
may remain long in office & will never make war if
he can help it. If he should be removed, the peace
will probably be short. He is solely chargeable with
the loss of Holland. True they could not have
1787] THOMAS JEFFERSON. 465
raised money by taxes to supply the necessities of
war ; but could they do it were their finances ever so
well arranged ? No nation makes war now-a-days
but by the aid of loans : and it is probable that in a
war for the liberties of Holland, all the treasures of
that country would have been at their service. They
have now lost the cow which furnishes the milk of
war. She will be on the side of their enemies, when-
ever a rupture shall take place: & no arrangement
of their finances can countervail this circumstance.
I have no doubt, you permit access to the letters
of your foreign ministers by persons only of the most
perfect trust. It is in the European system to bribe
the clerks high in order to obtain copies of interest-
ing papers. I am sure you are equally attentive to
the conveyance of your letters to us, as you know
that all are opened that pass thro' any post office of
Europe. Your letters which come by the packet, if
put into the mail at New York, or into the post office
at Havre, wear proofs that they have been opened.
The passenger to whom they are confided, should be
cautioned always to keep them in his own hands till
he can deliver them personally in Paris.
TO WILLIAM STEPHENS SMITH. J.MSS.
PARIS. Nov 13, 1787.
DEAR SIR, I am now to acknoledge the receipt of
your favors of October the 4th, 8th, & 26th. In the
last you apologise for your letters of introduction to
Americans coming here. It is so far from needing
VOL. iv. 30
466 THE WRITINGS OF [1787
apology on your part, that it calls for thanks on mine.
I endeavor to shew civilities to all the Americans who
come here, & will give me opportunities of doing it :
and it is a matter of comfort to know from a good
quarter what they are, & how far I may go in my at-
tentions to them. Can you send me Woodmason's
bills for the two copying presses for th$ M. de la
Fayette, & the M. de Chastellux ? The latter makes
one article in a considerable account, of old standing,
and which I cannot present for want of this article.
I do not know whether it is to yourself or Mr. Adams
I am to give my thanks for the copy of the new con-
stitution. I beg leave through you to place them
where due. It will be yet three weeks before I shall
receive them from America. There are very good
articles in it : & very bad. I do not know which pre-
ponderate. What we have lately read in the history
of Holland, in the chapter on the Stadtholder, would
have sufficed to set me against a chief magistrate
eligible for a long duration, if I had ever been dis-
posed towards one : & what we have always read of
the elections of Polish kings should have forever ex-
cluded the idea of one continuable for life. Wonder-
ful is the effect of impudent & persevering lying. The
British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers
to repeat and model into every form lies about our
being in anarchy, that the world has at length be-
lieved them, the English nation has believed them,
the ministers themselves have come to believe them,
& what is more wonderful, we have believed them
ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist ? Where
1787] THOMAS JEFFERSON. 467
did it ever exist, except in the single instance of
Massachusetts ? And can history produce an instance
of rebellion so honourably conducted ? I say nothing
of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance,
not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20
years without such a rebellion. The people cannot
be all, & always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented in proportion to the im-
portance of the facts they misconceive. If they re-
main quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy,
the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We
have had 13. states independent n. years. There
has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion
in a century & a half for each state. What country
before ever existed a century & half without a rebel-
lion ? & what country can preserve it's liberties if
their rulers are not warned from time to time that
their people preserve the spirit of resistance ? Let
them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few
lives lost in a century or two ? The tree of liberty
must be refreshed from time to time with the blood
of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our
Convention has been too much impressed by the in-
surrection of Massachusetts : and in the spur of the
moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen-
yard in order. I hope in God this article will be
rectified before the new constitution is accepted.
You ask me if any thing transpires here on the sub-
ject of S. America ? Not a word. I know that there
are combustible materials there, and that they wait
468 THE WRITINGS OF [1787
the torch only. But this country probably will join
the extinguishers. The want of facts worth com-
municating to you has occasioned me to give a little
loose to dissertation. We must be contented to
amuse, when we cannot inform.
TO WILLIAM CARMICHAEL. j. MSS .
PARIS Dec. 15, 1787.
DEAR SIR, I am later in acknoledging the receipt
of your favors of Oct. 15, Nov. 5 & 1 5, because we have
been long expecting a packet which I hoped would
bring communications worth detailing to you, and
she arrived only a few days ago, after a very long
passage indeed. I am very sorry you have not been
able to make out the cypher of my letter of Sept. 25,
because it contained things which I wished you to
know at that time. They have lost now a part of
their merit ; but still I wish you could decypher
them, there remains a part which it might still be
agreeable to you to understand. I have examined
the cypher, from which it was written. It is precisely
a copy of those given to Messieurs Barclay & Lamb.
In order that you may examine whether yours corre-
sponds I will now translate into cypher the three first
lines of my letter of June 14.
1420. 1250. 1194. 1307. 1531. 458. 48. 1200. 134. 1140. 1469. 519. 563.
1057. 1201. Ilgg. 1531. 1571. 1040. 870. 423. 1001. 855. 521. 1173. 917. 1559.
505. 1196. 51. 1152. 698. 141. 1569. 996. 861. 804. 1337. 1199.
This will serve to show whether your cypher cor-
1787] THOMAS JEFFERSON. 469
responds with mine, as well as my manner of using it.
But I shall not use it in future till I know from you
the result of your re-examination of it. I have the
honor now to return you the letter you had been so
good as to enclose to me. About the same time of
Liston's conversation with you, similar ones were
held with me by Mr. Eden. He particularly ques-
tioned me on the effect of our treaty with France in the
case of a war, and what might be our dispositions. I
told him without hesitation that our treaty obliged us
to receive the armed vessels of France with their prizes
into our ports, & to refuse admission to the prizes
made on her by her enemies : that there was a clause
by which we guaranteed to France her American
possessions, and which might perhaps force us into
the war if these were attacked. " And it is certain,
said he, that they would have been attacked." I
added that our dispositions would have been to be
neutral, & that I thought it the interest of both those
powers that we should be so, because it would relieve
both from all anxiety as to the feeding their West
Indian islands, and England would moreover avoid a
heavy land war on our continent which would cripple
all her proceedings elsewhere. He expected these
sentiments from me personally, and he knew them to
be analogous to those of our country. We had often
before had occasions of knowing each other : his
peculiar bitterness towards us had sufficiently ap-
peared, & I had never concealed from him that I
considered the British as our natural enemies, and as
the only nation on earth who wished us ill from the
470 THE WRITINGS OF [1787
bottom of their souls. And I am satisfied that were
our continent to be swallowed up by the ocean, Great
Britain would be in a bonfire from one end to the
other. Mr. Adams, as you know, has asked his
recall. This has been granted, & Colonel Smith is
to return too ; Congress having determined to put
an end to their commission at that court. I suspect,
and hope they will make no new appointment.
Our new constitution is powerfully attacked in the
American newspapers. The objections are, that its
effect would be to form the 13 states into one : that
proposing to melt all down into one general govern-
ment they have fenced the people by no declaration
of right, they have not renounced the power of keep-
ing a standing army, they have not secured the liberty
of the press, they have reserved a power of abolishing
trials by jury in civil cases, they have proposed that
the laws of the federal legislature shall be paramount
the laws & constitutions of the states, they have
abandoned rotation in office ; & particularly their
president may be re-elected from 4. years to 4 years
for life, so as to render him a king for life, like a
King of Poland, & have not given him either the
check or aid of a council. To these they add calcu-
lations of expense &c. &c. to frighten people. You
will perceive that these objections are serious, and
some of them not without foundation. The constitu-
tion however has been received with a very general
enthusiasm, and as far as can be judged from external
demonstrations the bulk of the people are eager to
adopt it. In the eastern states the printers will print
1787] THOMAS JEFFERSON. 471
nothing against it unless the writer subscribes his
name. Massachusetts & Connecticut have called
conventions in January to consider of it. In New
York there is a division. The Governor (Clinton)
is known to be hostile to it. Jersey it is thought will
certainly accept it. Pennsylvania is divided, & all
the bitterness of her factions has been kindled anew
on it. But the party in favor of it is strongest both in
& out of the legislature. This is the party antiently
of Morris, Wilson &c. Delaware will do what Penn-
sylvania shall do. Maryland is thought favorable to
it : yet it is supposed Chase & Paca will oppose it.
As to Virginia two of her delegates in the first
place refused to sign it. These were Randolph, the
governor, & George Mason. Besides these, Henry,
Harrison, Nelson, & the Lees are against it. Genl.
Washington will be for it, but it is not in his charac-
ter to exert himself much in the case. Madison will
be it's main pillar; but tho an immensely popular
one, it is questionable whether he can bear the
weight of such a host. So that the presumption is
that Virginia will reject it. We know nothing of the
disposition of the states South of this. Should it fall
thro', as is possible notwithstanding the enthusiasm
with which it was received in the first moment, it is
probable that Congress will propose that the objec-
tions which the people shall make to it being once
known, another Convention shall be assembled to
adopt the improvements generally acceptable, & omit
those found disagreeable. In this way union may be
produced under a happy constitution, and one which
472 THE WRITINGS OF [1787
shall not be too energetic, as are the constitutions of
Europe. I give you these details, because possibly
you may not have received them all. The sale of
our Western lands is immensely successful. 5. mil-
lions of acres had been sold at private sale for a
dollar an acre in certificates, and at the public sales
some of them had sold as high as 2^- dollars the
acre. The sale had not been begun two months.
By these means, taxes, &c. our domestic debt, origi-
nally 28. millions of dollars was reduced by the ist
day of last October to 12. millions & they were then
in treaty for 2. millions of acres more at a dollar pri-
vate sale. Our domestic debt will thus be soon paid
off, and that done, the sales will go on for money, at
a cheaper rate no doubt, for the payment of our for-
eign debt. The petite guerre always waged by the
Indians seems not to abate the ardor of purchase or
emigration. Kentucky is now counted at 60.000.
Frankland is also growing fast.
I inclose you a letter from Mr. Littlepage on the
subject of money he owes you. The best thing you
can do, I think, will be to desire your banker at Ma-
drid to give orders to his correspondent here to re-
ceive the money and remit it to you. I shall chear-
fully lend my instrumentality as far as it can be
useful to you. If any sum of money is delivered me
for you before you write on the subject I shall place
it in Mr. Grand's hands subject to your order, & give
you notice of it. No money-news yet from our
board of treasury.
You ask me if there is any French translation of
my notes ? There is one by the Abbe Morellet : but
1787] THOMAS JEFFERSON. 473
the whole order is changed and other differences
made, which, with numerous typographical errors,
render it a different book, in some respects perhaps a
better one, but not mine. I am flattered by the
Count de Campomane's acceptance of the original.
I wish I had thought to have sent one to Don Ulloa
(for I suppose him to be living, tho' I have not heard
of him lately,) a person so well acquainted with the
Southern part of our world, & who has given such
excellent information on it, would perhaps be willing
to know something of the Northern part.
I have been told that the cutting thro' the isthmus
of Panama, which the world has so often wished &
supposed practicable, has at times been thought of
by the government of Spain, & that they once pro-
ceeded so far as to have a survey & examination
made of the ground ; but that the result was either
impracticability or too great difficulty. Probably the
Count de Campomanes or Don Ulloa can give you
information on this head. I should be exceedingly
pleased to get as minute details as possible on it, and
even copies of the survey, report, &c. if they could
be obtained at a moderate expense. I take the lib-
erty of asking your assistance in this.
TO JAMES MADISON. 1 MAD. MSS.
PARIS Dec. 20, 1787.
DEAR SIR, My last to you was of Oct. 8 by the