GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRA-
TION'S FEDERAL BUILDINGS FUND
AND REORGANIZATION
(103-63)
Y 4. P 96/11:103-63
, , HINGS
General Services Adnimstration's F. . .
'ORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC BUILDINGS AND
GROUNDS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS AND
TRANSPORTATION
HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
FEBRUARY 24 AND MARCH 22, 1994
EDWARD J. SCHWARTZ COURTHOUSE AND FEDERAL BUILDING IN SAN
DIEGO, CA (H.R. 3770); BYRON WHITE UNITED STATES COURTHOUSE
IN DENVER, CO (H.R. 3693); FREDERICK C. MURPHY FEDERAL CENTER
IN WALTHAM, MA (H.R. 2318)
Printed for the use of the Committee on Public Works and Transportation
JAN
'3
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON : 1994
For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office
Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office. Washington, DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-046131-6
S3-830 Q-94
GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRA-
TION'S FEDERAL BUILDINGS FUND
I AND REORGANIZATION
(103-63)
Y4.P 96/11:103-63
c , , .,■■*••>» BRINGS
General Services Adrumstration's F. . .
'ORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC BUILDINGS AND
GROUNDS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS AND
' TRANSPORTATION
HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
FEBRUARY 24 AND MARCH 22, 1994
EDWARD J. SCHWARTZ COURTHOUSE AND FEDERAL BUILDING IN SAN
DIEGO, CA (H.R. 3770); BYRON WHITE UNITED STATES COURTHOUSE
IN DENVER, CO (H.R. 3693); FREDERICK C. MURPHY FEDERAL CENTER
IN WALTHAM, MA (H.R. 2318)
Printed for the use of the Committee on Public Works and Transportation
M "'9'S35
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
83-830 WASHINGTON : 1994
For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office
Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office. Washington. DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-046131-6
83-830 O - 94 - 1
COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS AND TRANSPORTATION
NORMAN Y. MINETA, California, Chair
JAMES L. OBERSTAR, Minnesota
NICK J. RAHALL II, West Virginia
DOUGLAS APPLEGATE, Ohio
RON de LUGO, Virgin Islands
ROBERT A. BORSKI, Pennsylvania
TIM VALENTINE, North Carolina
WILLIAM O. LIPINSKI, Illinois
ROBERT E. WISE, Jr., West Virginia
JAMES A. TRAFICANT, Jr., Ohio
PETER A. DeFAZIO, Oregon
JAMES A. HAYES, Louisiana
BOB CLEMENT, Tennessee
JERRY F. COSTELLO, Illinois
MIKE PARKER, Mississippi
GREG LAUGHLIN, Texas
PETE GEREN, Texas
GEORGE E. SANGMEISTER, Illinois
GLENN POSHARD, Illinois
DICK SWETT, New Hampshire
BUD CRAMER, Alabama
BARBARA-ROSE COLLINS, Michigan
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of
Columbia
LUCIEN E. BLACKWELL, Pennsylvania
JERROLD NADLER, New York
SAM COPPERSMITH, Arizona
LESLIE L. BYRNE, Virginia
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
PAT DANNER, Missouri
KAREN SHEPHERD, Utah
ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey
JAMES E. CLYBURN, South Carolina
CORRINE BROWN, Florida
NATHAN DEAL, Georgia
JAMES A. BARCIA, Michigan
DAN HAMBURG, California
BOB FILNER, California
WALTER R. TUCKER III, California
EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
PETER W. BARCA, Wisconsin
BUD SHUSTER, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM F. CLINGER, Jr., Pennsylvania
THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin
SHERWOOD L. BOEHLERT, New York
JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma
BILL EMERSON, Missouri
JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee
SUSAN MOLINARI, New York
WILLIAM H. ZELIFF, Jr., New Hampshire
THOMAS W. EWING, Illinois
WAYNE T. GILCHREST, Maryland
JENNIFER DUNN, Washington
Y. TIM HUTCHINSON, Arkansas
BILL BAKER, California
MICHAEL A. "Mac" COLLINS, Georgia
JAY KIM, California
DAVID A. LEVY, New York
STEPHEN HORN, California
BOB FRANKS, New Jersey
PETER I. BLUTE, Massachusetts
HOWARD P. "Buck" McKEON, California
JOHN L. MICA, Florida
PETER HOEKSTRA, Michigan
JACK QUINN, New York
VERNON J. EHLERS, Michigan
Subcommittee on Public Buildings and Grounds
JAMES A. TRAFICANT, Jr., Ohio, Chair
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee
Columbia, Vice Chair
EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
DOUGLAS APPLEGATE, Ohio
JAMES E. CLYBURN, South Carolina
WALTER R. TUCKER III, California
NORMAN Y. MINETA, California
(Ex Officio)
THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin
BILL EMERSON, Missouri
BUD SHUSTER, Pennsylvania
(Ex Officio)
(II)
CONTENTS
Proceedings of: Pa e e
February 24, 1994 1
March 22, 1994 25
FEBRUARY 24, 1994
Subject: H.R. 3770 — To designate the United States courthouse located at
940 Front Street in San Diego, California, and the Federal building at-
tached to the courthouse as the "Edward J. Schwartz Courthouse and
Federal Building".
TESTIMONY
Schenk, Hon. Lynn, a Representative in Congress from California
Text of H.R. 3770 5
Subject: H.R. 3693 — To designate the Courthouse under Construction in Den-
ver, Colorado, as the "Byron White United States Courthouse".
TESTIMONY
Schaefer, Hon. Dan, a Representative in Congress from Colorado 7
Text of H.R. 3693 9
Subject: H.R. 2318— To redesignate the Federal Building located at 380
Trapelo Road in Waltham, Massachusetts, as the "Frederick C. Murphy
Federal Center".
TESTIMONY
Markey, Hon. Edward J., a Representative in Congress from Massachusetts ... 11
Text of H.R. 2318 13
Subject: General Services Administration's Federal Buildings Fund and Reor-
ganization.
SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD
Duncan, Hon. John, Jr., a Representative in Congress from Tennessee:
Statement — Estimated costs of courthouse construction 17
Chart — Major mainland U.S. courthouse projects 18
MARCH 22, 1994
TESTIMONY
Johnson, Hon. Roger, Administrator, General Services Administration .: 29
PREPARED STATEMENT SUBMITTED BY WITNESS
Johnson, Hon. Roger 51
(III)
IV
SUBMISSION FOR THE RECORD
Johnson, Hon. Roger, Administrator, General Services Administration, fact Pa e e
sheet, Hammond, IN 33
Edward J. Schwartz Courthouse and Federal Building in San
Diego, CA (H.R. 3770)
Byron White United States Courthouse in Denver, CO (H.R. 3693)
Frederick C. Murphy Federal Center in Waltham, MA (H.R. 2318)
GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION'S FED-
ERAL BUILDINGS FUND AND REORGANIZA-
TION
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1994
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Public Buildings and Grounds,
Committee on Public Works and Transportation,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to other business, at 8:45 a.m.,
in room 2253, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. James A.
Traficant, Jr. (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Traficant. We will now begin our hearing.
We will first hear testimony from distinguished colleagues on
three bills that will name Federal building after exceptional indi-
viduals. We will then hear testimony from the Administrator of the
General Services Administration, Roger Johnson, on two very im-
portant topics — the operation of the Federal Buildings Fund, which
was established by the Public Buildings Act of 1972 which I believe
is still the law of the land; and Mr. Johnson's plans for reorganiz-
ing GSA.
Mr. Duncan, would you like to make an opening statement?
Let me just say this to the committee. Could we perhaps hold up
our statements briefly to move on with maybe the markups and the
other elements we have here before we bring Mr. Johnson on? I
would appreciate that. Can we do that?
Mr. Duncan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Traficant. Our witness here is the Representative from
California, Congresswoman Lynn Schenk who will testify on H.R.
3770 to designate the U.S. courthouse located at 940 Front Street,
San Diego, California, and the federal building attached to the
courthouse as the Edward J. Schwartz Courthouse and Federal
Building.
Ms. Schenk.
(l)
TESTIMONY OF HON. LYNN SCHENK, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM CALIFORNIA
Ms. SCHENK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to say thank you to you for your help and that of the sub-
committee, especially that of your excellent staff, in this matter
and in moving the bill expeditiously.
It is my privilege to be here today in support of H.R. 3770 which
will name the San Diego Federal Courthouse the Edward J.
Schwartz Courthouse and Federal Building. Judge Schwartz is a
legend in the San Diego legal community. He began his very long
and distinguished career as a jurist in 1959 when California's
greatest post-war Governor, Pat Brown, appointed him to the mu-
nicipal court bench.
In 1968, when the U.S. Senate confirmed President Johnson's
nomination of Judge Schwartz to the Federal bench, he became the
very first judge appointed to the district court for the Southern Dis-
trict of California. From 1969 to 1982, Judge Schwartz served as
the Chief Judge for the Southern District. At the time that he was
appointed Chief Judge, the district court occupied a very old and
dilapidated post office building. Judge Schwartz led the campaign
to build an appropriate Federal courthouse and Federal building in
San Diego.
His involvement with the new courthouse did not end with just
obtaining Federal funding. Judge Schwartz was so committed to
this project that he actually supervised the planning and construc-
tion of the building. Many in the legal community there believe
that the current courthouse is a testament to the initiative, the
dedication and the tenacity of Judge Schwartz.
For 13 years, Judge Schwartz guided the district court in San
Diego with dignity, with grace, with loyalty to the court and to the
Judicial Branch of Government. Under his leadership, the South-
ern District grew from a small satellite of Los Angeles to one of the
busiest judicial districts in the country, and probably one with the
busiest docket dealing with illegal immigrants.
Judge Schwartz has devoted his life to the court, to San Diego
and to his country, and remarkably, at the age of 81 today, he still
continues to try cases with great vigor. He is a fair, thoughtful, and
respected jurist and I believe that naming the courthouse after him
would be a most fitting way to honor his many years of distin-
guished public service. My efforts to name the courthouse after
Judge Schwartz are supported by the San Diego Federal bench, the
San Diego Chapter of the Federal Bar Association and indeed, the
entire legal community.
Once again, thank you for allowing me to be here in support of
this bill. I know that your very busy and active subcommittee has
a lot to do, so I really appreciate your taking the time to consider
this bill.
Mr. Traficant. Thank you.
Mr. Duncan.
Mr. Duncan. I would just like to thank our colleague for being
here. It sounds like Judge Schwartz has had a wonderful career
and we appreciate your efforts.
Thank you very much.
Ms. Schenk. Thank you.
Mr. Traficant. Ms. Norton.
Ms. Norton. I appreciate the testimony of our good friend and
colleague, Representative Schenk, and of course, appreciate the
spirit in which the name is offered for the courthouse.
Mr. Traficant. I too want to associate myself with the remarks
of my colleagues and we appreciate your testimony here today.
Thank you, Ms. Schenk.
Ms. Schenk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
103d CONGRESS
2d Session
H. R. 3770
To designate the United States courthouse located at 940 Front Street
in San Diego, California, and the Federal building attached to the
courthouse as the "Edward J. Schwartz Courthouse and Federal Build-
ing".
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
February 2, 1994
Ms. Schenk introduced the following bill; which was referred to the
Committee on Public Works and Transportation
A BILL
To designate the United States courthouse located at 940
Front Street in San Diego, California, and the Federal
building attached to the courthouse as the "Edward J.
Schwartz Courthouse and Federal Building".
1 Be it enacted by tiie Senate and House of Representa :
2 tives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
3 SECTION 1. DESIGNATION.
4 The United States courthouse located at 940 Front
5 Street in San Diego, California, and the Federal building
6 attached to the courthouse shall be known and designated
7 as the "Edward J. Schwartz Courthouse and Federal
8 Building".
2
1 SEC. 2. REFERENCES.
2 Any reference in a law, map, regulation, document,
3 paper, or other record of the United States to the court-
4 house and Federal building referred to in section 1 shall
5 be deemed to be a reference to the "Edward J. Schwartz
6 Courthouse and Federal Building".
o
•HR 3770 IH
Mr. Traficant. Our next witness is the Representative from Col-
orado, Congressman Dan Schaefer, who will testify on H.R. 3693
to designate the U.S. courthouse under construction in Denver, Col-
orado as the Byron White United States Courthouse.
It's good to see you, Dan. Go ahead.
TESTIMONY OF HON. DAN SCHAEFER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM COLORADO
Mr. Schaefer. It's good to see you, Mr. Traficant, Ms. Norton
and Mr. Duncan.
I'm going to be very brief here today.
I am doing this, to a large degree, on a request by Senator Ben
Nighthorse Campbell, who at this point in time is moving this par-
ticular designation through the Senate. So this is certainly a bipar-
tisan effort honoring Justice White, the only Coloradan to ever
serve as a Supreme Court Justice.
During his tenure on the bench, Justice White was faced with a
lot of very controversial issues. In carrying out those duties he
gained the respect of his peers and the general public for his inde-
pendence and knowledge of the United States Constitution.
So with these brief words, I would like to add that Byron White
has really exemplified the integrity and independence of thought
that we all hope to see members of the bench possess. Beyond that,
he remained a great example to other citizens of the State of Colo-
rado. We would very much appreciate the committee taking under
consideration the naming of this Federal courthouse after Byron
White.
Mr. Traficant. We appreciate your testimony.
Mr. Duncan.
Mr. Duncan. I want to thank our colleague, Dan Schaefer, for
being with us today and certainly, this is a very appropriate piece
of legislation. As one who spent 7V2 years as a circuit court judge,
I can tell you that judges and lawyers all over this country had
great and have great admiration and respect for Justice White.
Thank you very much for bringing this to us.
Mr. SCHAEFER. Thank you very much, Mr. Duncan.
Mr. Traficant. Ms. Norton.
Ms. NORTON. I want to thank our colleague for bringing this very
appropriate request. Justice White is a justice of great stature.
Mr. Traficant. I too want to echo those remarks.
I appreciate your time, your testimony and your diligent and
hard work in the Congress.
Mr. Schaefer. My good fourth floor roommate down at the end
of the aisle here.
Thank you, Mr. Traficant.
Mr. Traficant. Thank you for being with us.
103d CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 3693
To designate the United States courthouse under construction in Denver,
Colorado, as the "Byron White United States Courthouse".
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
November 22, 1993
Mr. Schaefer introduced the following bill; which was referred to the
Committee on Public Works and Transportation
A BILL
To designate the United States courthouse under construc-
tion in Denver, Colorado, as the "Byron White United
States Courthouse".
1 Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representa-
2 tives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
3 SECTION 1. DESIGNATION.
4 The United States courthouse being constructed
5 through renovation of the old post office building in Den-
6 ver, Colorado, shall be known and designated as the
7 "Byron White United States Courthouse".
8 SEC. 2. REFERENCES.
9 Any reference in a law, map, regulation, document,
10 paper, or other record of the United States to the court-
10
2
1 house referred to in section 1 shall be deemed to be a ref-
2 erence to the "Byron White United States Courthouse".
o
• HR 3693 IH
11
Mr. TRAFICANT. Our next witness is the Representative from
Massachusetts, Congressman Edward J. Markey, who will testify
on behalf of H.R. 2318, to redesignate the Federal building located
at 380 Trapelo Road in Waltham, Massachusetts as the Frederick
C. Murphy Federal Center — and probably mess that road up, Ed.
I'm pleased to note that several of my young constituents proudly
served in World War II with Frederick Murphy and Ed, they have
contacted me in support of the bill — which is unusual — and of
course, I'm delighted to join them and you. Your leadership in the
Congress has become exemplary. We are honored to have you here.
TESTIMONY OF HON. EDWARD J. MARKEY, A
REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM MASSACHUSETTS
Mr. Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
There is a good reason why your constituents would contact you
on behalf of this legislation because it is going to honor PFC Fred-
erick C. Murphy by rededicating 380 Trapelo Road in Waltham as
the Frederick C. Murphy Federal Center.
PFC Frederick Murphy is a deserving recipient of this honor. He
was a man of singular devotion to his country who on March 18,
1945 on the Siegfried line in Saarlautern, Germany, sacrificed his
life so that his fellow soldiers could survive and our Nation's free-
dom could continue to endure.
As a young man, PFC Murphy answered his country's call to
service by enlisting in the United States Army. He became an Aid
in E Company of the 259th Infantry of the 65th Infantry Division.
PFC Murphy landed in the European theater in June of 1944 and
served meritoriously until the time of his death in March of 1945.
According to his comrades, many of whom live in your districts
and districts throughout the country, Murphy was a man who ex-
emplified courage and the dawn attack at the Siegfried line on
March 18, 1945, provides the ultimate example of his patriotism.
As he crossed the battlefield on that fateful day, Murphy was
struck by an enemy bullet. Refusing to withdraw from the battle,
the young private continued to attend to his duties as a medic. He
moved across the battlefield under extremely heavy gunfire and in
dire pain and continued to attend to those who were more seriously
wounded.
The field was strewn with mines and as he struggled forward, he
stepped on an anti-personnel mine. After the mine ripped his foot
from his body, Murphy did the unthinkable, he continued to assist
other wounded soldiers. Pressing on despite heavy blood loss, Mur-
phy moved from man to man and when his strength finally gave,
he shouted instructions to those he could not reach. However, the
cries of his fellow soldiers were too much to bear and he drew upon
his indomitable courage and continued toward them. As he crawled
forward, he crossed another mine that ended his life.
Private Frederick C. Murphy was an American hero. His selfless
desire to save the lives of fellow Americans cost him his own life.
The 65th Infantry "Halberdiers," PFC Murphy's comrades, have
pushed hard across the country so that he may receive this honor.
He was the only Congressional Medal of Honor recipient in the
65th Infantry Division in its history. Those that live in your district
and districts across the country would like him to have this facility
12
dedicated in his memory. I am here today with the support of the
entire Massachusetts delegation requesting that be made possible.
Mr. Traficant. We appreciate your eloquent testimony here.
Mr. Duncan.
Mr. Duncan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I will just say that I certainly am pleased to see a true American
hero honored in this way and will be happy to play a very small
part in this procedure.
Thank you very much, Congressman Markey.
Mr. Markey. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Traficant. Ms. Norton.
Ms. Norton. I will welcome our good colleague, Congressman
Markey, and say how impressed I was with what he had to say.
Mr. Markey. Thank you.
Mr. Traficant. I have a question for you before you go. Is Nancy
Kerrigan your constituent, Ed?
Mr. Markey. Nancy Kerrigan is my constituent.
Mr. Traficant. She really represented herself very well last
night. I mean that.
Mr. Markey. I don't think Tonya Harding should have said,
"break a leg" before she went on. [Laughter.]
Mr. Traficant. You know what, Markey? You're all right, buddy.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Traficant. I did have a number of calls on this and we will
be very glad to work with you on this. We appreciate your testi-
mony.
Thank you for coming.
Mr. Markey. After Friday night, we may be back for another
award for Nancy Kerrigan.
Mr. Traficant. Let's all hope so, but she did dispatch her duties
quite well over there. Be proud of that.
Thank you for coming in. It's good to see you.
Mr. Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13
103d CONGRESS
1st Session
H.R.2318
To redesignate the Federal building located at 380 Trapelo Road in Waltham,
Massachusetts, as the "Frederick C. Murphy Federal Center".
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
May 27, 1993
Mr. Market (for himself, Mr. Moakley, Mr. Kennedy, Mr. Frank of Mas-
sachusetts, Mr. Neal of Massachusetts, Mr. Studds, Mr. Olver, Mr.
Meehan, Mr. Torkildsen, Mr. Blute, and Mr. Montgomery) intro-
duced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Public
Works and Transportation
A BILL
To redesignate the Federal building located at 380 Trapelo
Road in Waltham, Massachusetts, as the "Frederick C.
Murphy Federal Center".
1 Be it enacted by tJie Senate and House of Representa-
2 tives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
3 SECTION 1. REDESIGNATION.
4 The Federal building located at 380 Trapelo Road
5 in Waltham, Massachusetts, and known as the Waltham
6 Federal Center, shall be known and designated as the
7 "Frederick C. Murphy Federal Center".
14
2
1 SEC. 2. REFERENCES.
2 Any reference in a law, map, regulation, document,
3 paper, or other record of the United States to the Federal
4 building referred to in section 1 shall be deemed to be
5 a reference to the "Frederick C. Murphy Federal Center".
o
•HR 2318 IH
15
GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION'S FEDERAL BUILDINGS
FUND AND REORGANIZATION
Mr. Traficant. Our first witness here is the Administrator of
the General Services Administration, Roger Johnson.
I would defer for an opening statement from the gentleman from
Tennessee, a friend of mine, and a hard worker in the Congress,
one of the able members of Congress, Mr. Duncan.
Mr. DUNCAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Before making a brief statement, I would like to utilize the sub-
committee's initial meeting in 1994 to salute you, Mr. Chairman,
for the bipartisan manner in which you have conducted the busi-
ness of this subcommittee. Congressman Traficant's leadership has
transformed this subcommittee from a routine rubber stamp to one
which vigorously questions and debates the issues and requests be-
fore us.
Our subcommittee has embraced a "Buy American" philosophy
which I also support and that is also thanks to Chairman Trafi-
cant. This subcommittee has created thousands of jobs nationwide
for American workers through approval of multimillion dollar con-
struction projects. At the same time, the subcommittee has saved
the taxpayers of this country many millions by reducing the cost
of numerous projects. The American worker and the American tax-
payer have no better friend in the Congress than Congressman Jim
Traficant, nor do I.
We will hear shortly from the General Services Administration
about plans to reorganize this huge, multibillion dollar agency and
its over 20,000 employees. At the outset, I must say that I remain
very pleased with the stewardship of this agency by its new Admin-
istrator Roger Johnson and his Deputy, Julia Stasch. According to
a report released on February 18, 1994, Mr. Johnson and Ms.
Stasch's comment and review effort has reduced the cost of new
Federal courthouses, building projects and leases by at least $1 bil-
lion. I recognize that these savings are both actual and projected.
Nevertheless, the Administrator and his staff have made a giant
step in the right direction.
I am particularly pleased with Mr. Johnson's and Ms. Stasch's
openness to congressional suggestions for reducing the cost of the
Atlanta Federal Center Project. In the bipartisan manner, with the
support of Chairman Traficant, we have obtained hard dollar sav-
ings of at least $265 million for the taxpayer as well as ownership
of the center.
Bringing about change in an organization, especially in an orga-
nization as large as this, is perhaps the most challenging of mana-
gerial initiatives. Whatever the changes proposed by the GSA Ad-
ministrator, their value will be judged by the response to one sim-