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political system of Russia ?

Dr. Trimakas. This change is chiefly, as I mentioned, for the Soviet
purposes. The Soviet needs certain goods for their armament or for
their other needs in the Soviet Union. They take almost TO percent
of the production. So all that is done is for the benefit of the Soviet
Union as the owners of everything. I stress once again, it is the
Soviet Union, not Lithuania itself.

Therefore, what is being done is being done for Soviet good, for
the supply of food to Moscow, for militarization. You may find but-
ter and meat in Boston easier than in Vilnius today as that surplus is
being transported, exported to the Soviet Union.

Mr. BoNiN. You spoke of the changing of the people in these oc-
cupied countries. Is that the term that was used by Stalin when he
stated that it was the dispersonalization of all the people in occupied
countries ?

Dr. Trimakas, I think he meant that. It is not very pleasant for
them to confess that the people should not stay too long at one place
of residence and must change jobs. If they don't change by them-
selves, they are simply advised to do that. If you don't find a job
some place else, they find it for you.

There is a reason for it. The longer you stay at your ordinary place
of residence, the more you know the people there and the more dan-
gerous you may become to the regime. They do not trust the people,
and if they don't trust you, they can't keep you too long in the same
place. Therefore, they have to change by themselves.

But that changing is aggravated by their authorization. You can-
not change your job as you like. You cannot choose another one as
you like. You must have the authorization. You may take the initia-
tive to show your good will that you would like to get another job here
or there, but that is all you can do.

But you can neither select your vocational school nor your job, nor
change it. You are regimented by the regime. Therefore, these
changes are continuous — purposely.

Mr. BoNiN. Doctor, Russia isn't operating under the theory of com-
munism at all ; it is actually a dictatorship.

Dr. Trimakas. That's it.

Mr. BoNiN. With the prediction of it being a Communist form of
government.

Dr. Trimakas. Yes, that is simply for the people, that "While we
are doing that now, it is for your own good. In time, maybe in some
remote time, your country will be a paradise, but now you have to
serve it, to sacrifice this and that and maybe the future* generations
will live under different conditions. That's what we are doinsr for
you.

They don't speak about communism. They do not say that their
regime is a communistic one. They say that "it is just the first stage
of cornmunism, that it is a socialistic form of state and economic order,
socialistic ; that it is the first stage before they are going to organize
the Communist so-called paradise on earth.

Mr. McTiGUE. You mean the socialist state paves the way to com-
munism ?

Dr. Trimakas. Yes.



194 BALTIC STATES INVESTIGATION

Mr. Keesten. Mr. Madden.

Mr. Madden. Doctor, in your testimony you cited the vast rise in
prices that took place. Did that same relative increase in prices of
loodstuffs and necessities, like clothing, have the same ratio of in-
crease in Lithuania, Lat\aa, Estonia and other countries under Com-
munist domination as in Lithuania ?

Dr. Trimakas. That is about the same. There are slight differences
here and there, by half of a percent, but that is about the same.

Mr. Madden. In your testimony you pictured the economic situation
under this Communist domination as practically relegating the people,
the masses, to economic slavery. Is that true ?

Dr. Trimakas. That is exact. A Soviet man economically is a
slave, even politicaly he is a slave.

Mr. Madden. Mr. Vishinsky in several speeches stated that the
admittance of Lithuania and these other subjugated countries into
the Soviet orbit was voluntary, that the Soviet Government wanted to
protect these subjugated countries, wanted them to take advanage of
their Soviet and communistic way of life.

As a matter of fact, according to your testimony, the Soviet Gov-
ernment, the Soviet leaders conquered through massacres and murders
and threats and imprisonments the leaders and the people of influence
in Lithuania and in these subjugated countries so that they had no
choice ; is that true ?

Dr. Trimakas. That is exact. Not only that, but I mentioned al-
ready that before the Communists came into Lithuania I was consul in
Poland, and then I met that commander in chief of the Soviet forces
that occupied half of Poland, that Marshal Kovalev that I mentioned
already.

One day during a simple visit of politeness to him — as he was the
chief officer I had to pay him that visit — I asked him, "Well, Marshal,
what is the matter that you occupied half of Poland? That was a
friendly country to you. Now we don't know even what may happen
to my country, to Lithuania."

His answer was this, "Well, we occupied half of Poland because that
was the desire of the Polish population of the nation."

Mr. Madden. ^Yho said that?

Dr. Trimakas. Marshal Kovalev. He said that was the desire of the
Polish population. I said, "But how? You had no elections there,
and how could that nation as such express that desire to be occupied
by your forces?"

"Well," he said, "We had certain agents. That's enough. They
declared what the nation wanted. Communist agents or Soviet agents
are the basis of declaring what the population should want. With
regard to Lithuania, v/e are now on friendly tenns for sure, but don't
forget that wherever we come in, we never withdraw. We came here
and we will remain."

Again I was so surprised. I said, "Well, what is the matter? The
Lithuanian delegation is in Moscow negotiating a mutual assistance
pact. It was invited, it was forced to go to do that. Molotov and
others declared their good intentions to protect Lithuania, its inde-
pendence, its system, and so on, and how can I then understand your
declaration?"

Well, he was somewhat confused. He said, "Well, you Avill see.
The future will show you that I was true and that I was right.'' Well,



BALTIC STATES INVESTIGATION 195

later on we understood that when these troops came in they did not
withdraw, they remained in Lithuania.

Mr, Madden. Well, that is interesting because when you referred to
Poland, I happen to be chairman of the special congressional conunit-
tee that investigated the Katyn massacres which took place in the
spring of 1940. There are almost 2,300 typewritten pages of testimony
taken in those hearings. The Russian Government, the Polish Com-
munist Government were invited, when we took testimony in Germany,
to come before our committee and present any evidence they had re-
garding the massacring of approximately 14,000 Polish officers,
judges, lawyers, and doctors, and they refused to appear.

Now the testimony also showed in regard to Poland — and of course
the same blueprint existed in regard to Lithuania, Latvia, and
Estonia and other captive countries — that in the winter of 1939 the
Communist Soviet Government took approximately 160,000 prisoners
out of Poland.

That was when they were coming in apparently "to help Poland
out" by taking them over and giving them "protection." They took
150,000 prisoners, and 14,000 of the leaders from these 150,000, were
placed in 3 prison camps. These 14,000, in the fall of 1939 and the
early winter of 1940, were subjected to this so-called communistic
brainwashing. In one of those 3 camps 4.300 bodies were found in
a mass grave, killed off because they were the leaders of Poland, and
tlie Communists were fearful that they would reestablish some day
possibly the comitry of Poland into a free government.

Now approximately 10,000 Polish prisoners in these other two
camps have never been found. So there are two other mass graves,
similar to Katyn in Russia that have never been found.

I am mentioning this for the record because it is the same pattern
that was used in all these countries that they took over, which makes
Stalin and Vishinsky and Molotov, as the chairman stated the other
day, the greatest unpunished criminals in the world today.

Dr. Trimakas. During the last war they did the same thing with
the Partisans. I was in Lithuania at that time and I know also what
happened. Our underground was in contact with the Polish under-
ground.

The so-called Soviet Partisans at that time had for their chief
purpose to kill the local people that were known as patriots, whether
they were Lithuanians or Poles, without any difference, in order to
destroy the national element. During the war sons of those same
families fought against the common enemy, the Nazis. Their resist-
ance was destroyed by so-called Soviet resistance. While the purpose
was clear, maybe in the West the people did not know what was the
aim and the purpose of those Soviet Partisans.

Mr. Madden. Let me ask you this. Doctor : I am informed that the
population of Lithuania in 1939 was around 3,300,000, was it ?

Dr. Trimakas. That is about right.

Mr. Madden. Also that the people that belonged to the Communist
Party in Lithuania ran around 1,700 members ; is that true ?

Dr. Trimakas. That is exactly. They had no influence whatsoever
on the national life.

Mr. Madden. And in 2 years after 1939, in 1941, there were only
2,200 Communists, approximately, in Lithuania. So that means that



195 BALTIC STATES INVESTIGATION

in 2 years they only increased their number about 300 or 400 members
in all Lithuania, a nation of 3,300,000.

Dr. Trimakas. That is exact. Even today there are not many more
if we do not count those so-called Communist youth organizations.

Mr. Madden. Now, Doctor, I am going to ask you, from your expe-
rience as an educator and an economist, what do you think is going to
be the ultimate outcome of this; how do you think these subjugated
nations and even the people of Russia that want freedom, how are they
ever going to overthrow this yoke of the minority that is inflicting
this tyranny on them? How do you think the future is going to deal
with these people ? Some day they are going to get their liberty.

Dr. Trimakas. Sure.

I^Ir. Madden. What do you think is the best method to use to aid
them; what further aid than we are giving can we give them? I
would like to get your opinion on it.

Dr. Trimakas. Well, I think it is so, if we follow the historical
developments of any of those powers — ancient Rome or Greece, even
Napoleon — they have either been destroyed or they collapsed from
within. Misunderstandings between themselves, economic rivalries
will really weaken their system, their regime. That will be the mo-
ment, but maybe not in so short time if there is no external help from
outside.

What we could do in order to help them is through our messages to
support their hope for better times, better conditions and what we are
doing. Our acts of the whole free world should be coordinated and
have the same aim, to find these Communist tendencies, communistic
infiltration, either in this country or elsewhere. And there are infil-
trations in the labor unions even of this country. I do not speak of
Europe where there are more.

In the economic system everywhere we have to fight in order make
the free world strong. That will impress them more and more and
will help those people in the hope for a better future and thus one day,
when that time will come, they really will fight with energy. For the
time being in their present circumstances, the time is not working
for us.

The people, especially the young generation, are being influenced to
a certain extent by the regime. That is quite natural. These young-
sters very often are sent to training schools, they are separated from
their families. They are thinking to change their opinions and they
are trying to indoctrinate them. So if the time of liberation is post-
poned, if it lasts too long, that would not be in our favor.

But if there is a collapse from within, then foreign pressure should
be coordinated strongly from all over upon the Soviets, a disclosure of
the purposes and aims of their propaganda and their tactics and their
deeds.

We are today in Bermuda. We hope that President Eisenhower and
Mr. Foster Dulles will withhold the pressure from those Europeans
who are sometimes afraid of the dangers and may yield to this and that.
(3ur strong position would be the best help to tliose unfortunate
people, our messages and promises of a better future and an under-
standing of how to help them. That will also contribute to a certain
extent.

That is the only way, short of war.



BALTIC STATES INVESTIGATION 197

Mr. Kersten. Dr. Trimakas, yon Avere born in Lithnania, when?

Dr. Trimakas. In 1902.

Mr. Kersten. Where did you live ?

Dr. Trimakas. I left Lithuania in 1944.

Mr. Kersten. Where did you live in Lithuania?

Dr. Trimakas. Oh, I was in Kaunas.

Mr. Kersten. Did you spend your youth there?

Dr. Trimakas. I spent my youth, well sometime there, and also in
foreic^n countries where I studied.

]\Ir. Kersten. You saw the times from 1918, or thereabouts, when
Lithuania gained its independence until 1940 when it lost it, did you
not?

Dr. Trimakas. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kersten. In other words, over 20 years?

Dr. Trimakas. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kersten. In a word, without going into the details, what would
you say as to the progress of the country in those 20 years that you
lived there ?

Dr. Trimakas. The progress was really spectacular in many re-
spects. Would you be interested in the economics ?

Mr. Kersten. I don't want to go into the details, but if you have
some figures there we would like to put them in the record. But in a
word you did see that progress with your own eyes, is that it?

Dr. Trimakas. That is right.

Mr. Kersten. I do want j'ou to put tliose figures in the record, if
you will give them to us because they are important.

How long did you live under the Soviets ?

Dr. Trimakas. One year, from the occupation in 1940, June 15, to
World War II when the Germans arrived in Lithuania.

Mr. Kersten. So that, as I understand it, what you saw in your
youth, the extraordinary progress of your native land, would you say
that in a short period of 1 year was just about destroyed? That is,
that the progress was just about destroyed in a year which the Lith-
uanian people by themselves had built up over a period of 22 years?

Dr. Trimakas. That is exact.

Mr. Kersten. Did you see some of these deportations?

Dr. TRiMAiiAS. Yes. I was on the list of deportations, too, but I
was saved for their own reasons.

Mr. Kersten. Where were you living, what city?

Dr. Trimakas. I was then in Kaunas during the deportation period.

Mr. Kersten. Did you see some of these trucks go through the
streets ?

Dr. Trimakas. I saw many trucks and many people crying on the
streets. I was at a certain reception at midnight — it was 1 hour after
midnight — and the trucks were in front of the homes where the people
were to be deported. They were crying, the children and the women.
Terrific scenes !

Mr. Kersten. Did you see trucks near your home ?

Dr. Trimikas. Yes, but for somebody else.

Mr. Kersten. Was that right near your home ?

Dr. Trimikas. Yes.

Mr. Kersten. Did you see them take people out ?

Dr. Trimikas. That is it.

52975— 54— pt. 1 14



198 BALTIC STATES INVESTIGATION

Mr. Kersten. How did they take them out ?

Dr. Trlmikas. Well, police or the NKVD, police agents, stood with
their guns around the house, around the truck, and others within the
home, within the house or apartment.

Mr. Kersten. Did you see some of this with your own eyes ?

Dr. Trimikas. I saw the arrest and deportation of the former Min-
ister in Rome, Mr. Carneckis, who just lived across the street.

Mr. Kersten. From you ?

Dr. Trimikas. Yes.

Mr. Kersten. Did you see him brought out of the house ?

Dr. Trimikas. That's it.

Mr. Kersten. Who brought him out ?

Dr. Trimikas. The police, the NKVD, armed with guns, and they
took the parents and then small children.

Mr. Kersten. Wliere did they put the parents and the small chil-
dren of this man ?

Dr. Trimikas. At that time all in the truck

Mr. Kersten. What kind of a truck ?

Dr. Trimikas. Simple truck, open truck.

Mr. Kersten. Was the truck guarded by soldiers ?

Dr. Trimikas. And guarded with soldiers, one soldier in the truck,
and then the soldier-driver, soldiers around the truck and around the
house.

Mr. Kersten. Did these deportations that you saw take place dur-
ing a period of about 3 days ?

Dr. Trimikas. That's it exactly.

Mr. Kersten. Were most of tliem brought out of the house at night
or was it all tlirough the day, around the clock ?

Dr. Trimikas. Usually at night.

Mr. Kersten. Out of the city of Kaunas how many people were
taken during these three days ?

Dr. Trimikas. During these 3 days in Kaunas we counted about
30,000 people taken away.

Mr. Kersten. How big was Kaunas ?

Dr. Trimikas. About 150,000.

Mr. Kersten. So about one-fifth of the population was taken out of
their homes in 3 days, is that right?

Dr. Trimikas. That is right.

Mr. Kersten. This involved men, women, and children ?

Dr. Trimakas. Men, women, and children.

Mr. Kersten. Were all of those 30,000 criminals or what kind of
people were they ?

Dr. Trimakas. They were just well-to-do people, respectable people,
leaders or simple people that owned certain property, and as such
they were enemies of the people.

Mr. Kersten. You mean enemies of the Soviet state?

Dr. Trimakas. Yes.

Mr. Kersten. Thirty thousand innocent people; is that right?

Dr. Trimakas. Yes. The lists had been drawn by the Communist
Party, the list of the people to be deported. They checked the list
and some of the people that they needed temporarily, they were still
kept.

Mr. Kersten. Did you see these people brought down to the railway
station?



BALTIC STATES INVESTIGATION 199

Dr. Teimakas. Well, I was not at the railroad station, but I saw
]iow the trucks w^ent to the railroad station with those unfortunate
people and what happened in the railroad station — well, you know,
they were put in those

Mr. Kersten. Cattle cars.

Dr. Trimakas. Yes.

Mr. Kersten. So far as you know, none of those people were ever
heard from again; is that right?

Dr. Trimakas. That is it.

Mr. BoNiN. Would you yield to me for one question ?

ISIr. Kersten. Yes.

Mr. BoNiN. Doctor, you stated that these lists were prepared in
.advance ?

Dr. Trimakas. They were prepared in advance.

Mr. BoNiN. You stated that these deportations took place within
a period of 3 days.

Dr. Trimakas. Those mass deportations ; yes.

Mr. BoxiN. Within 3 days?

Dr. Trimak.\s. Yes.

Mr. BoNiN. So therefore it must have been somebody in that coun-
try that supplied that list?

Dr. Trimakas. Yes. There were at least a certain number of Com-
munists there, as you have heard. They helped to prepare those lists.
And then their own agents; they always have agents everywhere.
Those agents that lived in Lithuania were often hidden ; nobody knew
that they were Conmlunists. They knew the people that were active
in the society, economic or social or political activities. Those
selected were, first of all, anybody that simply expressed ideas con-
trary to the Communist regime. Or for personal reasons they were
enemies of certain individuals, and they were thus listed and deported.
Then those lists were checked. That was the mass deportations.

Tljen later on the deportations were continued in smaller number.
Some were maintained for maintenance of economic functions. They
kept them, still kept them for a certain time, under their exact surveil-
lance. They visited homes; my home was visited several times before
*the deportations started. I was on the list too, but I was not deported
because they needed me as an expert in economics to help them to plan
the food production where I had worked. I was appointed without
being asked whether or not I was willing to assume that function. I
was planning the food for that period of time. That saved me from
deportation.

The day I was to be deported, June 22, the Germans came and I was
saved.

Mr. BoNiN. Doctor, realizing the amount of Communist activity
in this country, are we free to conclude that the Russian Government
is supplied with a list of people who would be deported in the event
of the overthrow of this country ?

Dr. Trimakas. I think so. They have already now the lists. They
drew the lists in advance.

Mr. Machrowicz. Are you worried that we might be on that list?

Mr. BoNiN. I know I am on it.

Dr. Trimakas. But the lists were drawn much in advance and even
the personalities foreseen who will take then certain positions, func-



200 BALTIC STATES INVESTIGATION

tions. Oh, that has been organized in advance, in good time. Later
on they had to change something, this and that.

I know the Communist organization. The pattern is the same. You
take the United States or any other country ; they have the lists, they
know the persons that are against them, that are active against them.
Whether they Avill succeed or not — I don't think they will succeed —
to do anything, but they are preparing.

Mr. BoNiN. I studied the pattern used in China and I know that
they used the same identical pattern there.

Dr. Trimakas. Yes, that is the master pattern that applied every-
where, wherever they go.

Mr. Kersten". Who was the Soviet Commissar to take over Lithu-
ania as Vishinsky was the Soviet Commissar to take over Latvia ?

Dr. Trimakas. That was Dekanozov, who later on was Minister of
Interior in his native Kepublic, Georgia. He played the same part as
Vishinsky in Latvia.

Mr. Kersten. Operating through the Soviet Embassy at Kaunas?

Dr. Trimakas. He was established at the Embassy in Kaunas and
dictated everything from that Embassy.

Mr. Kersten. Did you have some occasion to know that he did that ?

Dr. Trimakas. Oh, yes; I knew that. I was at the Ministry of
Foreign Affairs at that time.

Mr. Kersten. For the Lithuanian Government?

Dr. Trimakas. Yes.

Mr. Kersten. You know that Dekanozov was at the Soviet
Embassy ?

Dr. Trimakas. That's it. I know.

Mr. Kersten. And just as Vishinsky met the local Communists in
Riga, Latvia, Dekanozov met the local Communists in Lithuania?

Dr. Trimakas. That's it.

Mr. Kersten. And organized the plan to take over?

Dr. Trimakas. Absolutely the same way. He played the same^role,
simply with certain local differences. He had different people,* dif-
ferent helpers and so on, but the same way. The Communists met at
the Embassy. They decided there what was to be done, but major
decisions were sent from Moscow. Dekanozov sat in Kaunas, but het
received orders from Moscow.

Mr. Kersten. In your country — it was testified by another witness
with regard to Latvia — where was the center of espionage to draw*
the noose around the neck of Lithuania ?

Dr. Trimakas. At that time they organized in Kaunas.

Mr. Kersten. Where?

Dr. Trimaicas. At the Embassy.

Mr. Kersten. The Embassy was the center of the espionage activ-
ity?

Dr. Trimakas. And the so-called economic or commercial represen-
tation.

Mr. Kersit:n. Would you say that it is very probable that the lists
you have referred to that you think are prepared for this country are
also being prepared in the Soviet Embassy in Washington?

Dr. Trimakas. I think so without any doubt.

Mr. Kersten. And that the Soviet Embassies in countries where
the Communists operate are the centers of activity to help take over
those countries, is that right, in your opinion ?



BALTIC STATES INVESTIGATION 201

Dr. Trimakas. That is it.

Mr. Kersten. Tliey are not ordinary diplomatic establishments but
are primarily subversive, espionage centers that mean to destroy the
country whose hospitality permits them to reside on that soil, is that
right?

Dr. Trimakas. They place everywhere their agents, they control
them, they instruct them and, being protected themselves by the
diplomatic extraterritoriality and privileges they are free to do what
they are interested to do. Those agents are not necessarily members
of the Embassy but they are under orders of the Embassy.

Mr. Kersten. How safe do you think we are in this country with
these Soviet Embassies, Communist Embassies here?

Dr. Trimakas. Oh, that depends on the activities of the FBI, and I
hope that they are active enough to protect the necessary sources of
information, although, as you know, not always did they succeed. So
we are safe enough, provided not only our institutions but every citi-



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