Dr. Christmas. Delaware.
Mr. Lea. And had the business of this company been conducteil
before that time under another name ?
Dr. Christmas. Yes; at one time I had a company called the
Christmas Aeroplane Co. That went out of business. But Mr.
McCoy and myself and some of our friends got together, with our
own private capital, and developed these machines for the purpose
of giving to the Government a good aeroplane, and we have spent
out of our own pockets about a quarter of a million dollars, witnout
one particle of encouragement of any character whatsoever from the
Government.
Mr. Lea. When did your company first begin to manufacture the
planes ?
Dr. Christmas. About a year and a half ago.
Mr. Lea. Was that before this company was incorporated ?
Dr. Christmas. Oh, yes.
Mr. Lea. You had a shop for the manufacture of them ?
Dr. Christmas. Yes.
Mr. Lea. And when did you make your first tests — ^your first flight^
with your machine ?
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Dr. Christmas. December 5.
Mr. Lea. 1918?
Dr. Christicas. Yes.
Mr. Lea. Was that about the time you made the flight at Mineola ?
Dr. Christicas. About the time we made the flight at ACneola, on
December 7. •
Mr. Lea. Your machine was not in actual production until recent
months; that is, after the war was oyer?
Dr. Christicas. The machine i^ built in such a way that its parts
are at least 50 per cent less than the other type of machine. It was
designed and built for the purpose of production. It is very easily
assembled. It does not require an expert to assemble it. The other
machines do. It has hardly one-half tne working parts that the other
type of machines have. It can be taken down in 10 minutes and it
can be put together inside of a half an hour, complete, and sent out
on its fl[ight; and its woodwork and framework is designed and' built
in such a way that they could be put into enormous production
immediately.
Mr. Lea. How many different types of machines have you actually
made ?
Dr. Christmas. There are only two types that you can make, the
f)usher and the tractor type; you either have got to put the screw in
ront or behind.
As regards the monoplane or biplane, there are only two types
that can be made — ^monoplane or a biplane. I have made both of
those kinds.
Mr. Lea. I had reference to difference in size as well as in design.
I think they wanted to know to what stage you had progressed ?
Dr. Christmas. I made machines aJl the way from 86 feet across
the wings down to 24 feet.
Mr. Lea. How many machines have you completed, including the
machine ready for operation ?
Dr. Christmas. Since we have been manufacturing, you mean ?
Mr. Lea. Yes.
Dr. Christmas. On Long Island ?
Mr. Lea. I meanyoxir total finished product.
Dr. Christmas. We have only built with the capital we had two
machines. We have in course of construction just now six more.
Mr. Lea. There was no time prior to the conclusion of the war that
you had a finished machine to test with and demonstrate in actual
flying, was there ?
Dr. Christmas. No.
Mr. Lea. When you went to the War Department with the bomb-
ing machine that you refer to, that was purely a design ?
Dr. Christmas. Yes.
Mr. Lea. It was not any machine that you could demonstrate
with?
Dr. Christmas. No.
Mr. Lea. Is it not your idea that perhaps it was more difficult for
you to get a hearing from the fact that so many designers and in-
ventors were pressing their claims upon the department ?
Dr. Christmas. No, sir; it certainly was not my idea. In the first
place, they should have known. It was easy enough for them to know
that the study I have been so closely following for 27 years should hav e
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262 WAB BXP£l!n>ITT7B£S.
given me the necessary reputation before the War Department before
any other investigator. They should have taken me into confidence
on the subject of the construction of any kind of machine, regardless
of anything.
Mr. Lea. Assuming your machine was meritorious, do you not
realize that it was more difficult for you to get a hearing on account
of the fact that so many designers and inventors and manufacturers
were pressing their claims upon the department ?
Dr. Christmas. No, sir; I do not believe anything of the sort. I
believe it was piu-ely because they knew I did know.
Mr. Lea. What had anybody to gain by that supposition, assum-
ingthat was true ?
Dr. Christmas. Because it would mean complete elimination of
that type of machine.
Mr. Lea. YHiat difference did it make to those who were con*
ducting this war if you did eliminate this .type. If it was a question
of first ascertaining the best type, that shomd have been then- duty
unquestionably ?
Dr. Christmas. Yes.
Mr. Lea. In the next place, it was a question of manufacture.
Dr. Christmas. Unless the Government shut right down and said,
'^ Well, you must not build any more of those machines; vou must
build this type of machine," that would have been all righti
Mr. Lea. What I mean is what motive did the War Department
have that woidd mean anything to them to accept the inferior type
instead of the best type, going U) the question of motors!
Dr. Christmas. Tne people who were building this type of machine
had a considerable amount of money invested.
Mr. Lea. But this machine was not designed at the beginning of
the war ?
Dr. Christmas. Oh, yes.
Mr. Lea. I want to get your judgment on this question if I can
make myself plain: At the beginniag of the war it was immaterial, so
far as they were benefited, what the design was, if they had the
power to assi^ the construction to whoever they pleased, the design
was immaterial ?
Dr. Christmas. You are intimating there that they did have the
power ?
Mr. Lea. I assume they did; yes.
Dr. Christmas. I do not believe that.
Mr. Lea. That they did not have the power to assign the work
wherever they pleased ?
Dr. Christmas. No, sir; they did not. I did not think so. That
is my own opinion. The power was outside the War Department.
Mr. Lea. Even supposing it was outside — of course, that is arguing
about a matter of conclusion — ^but, to get at your views, if the people
outside had the power and the Government once selected a oesign.
whether it was Vours or somebody else's, they could assume tne
manufacturing of it if they wanted to, going on that assumption f
Dr. Christmas. The War Department could ?
Mr. Lea. No; whoever had the power to say where the GoTem-
ment machines could be manufactured had the power to say that the
Curtiss people, the Dayton- Wright people, or somebody else could
manufacture ?
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AVIATION. 263
Dr. Christmas. Yes.
Mr. Lea. If you had a patent, as I understand you have, you could
say, ^' You must give me so much for my patent,*' but the Government
could say who would build the machines, or whatever the dominating
power was. So I do not get the force of your suggestion as to the
motive in reference to construction.
Dr. Christmas. You see this type of machine has been in use for a
great many years, and all the jigs and templets and frames and all
that sort of thing were perfectly well known, and it was just like
making a pair of shoes, and they knew just what to do in this regard
and had everything ready to do it with. They preferred to manu-
facture this type of machine [indicating]. It was not a question with
them of developing a high-grade or high-class machine, but a question
of making machines and getting money for them.
Mr. Lea. Do you not think there were men concerned in the air-
craft production that were just as patriotic as you or 1 am, concerned
with the management of the aircraft business; that is, saying nothing
about their abiUty in that hne, but so far as the motive was con-
cerned?
Dr. Christmas. Undoubtedly I believe that. But the only thing
I can say to you in answer to that is that I did not find them; I did
not come in contact with them.
Mr. Lea. Just who were the ones you came in contact with who
were not patriotic ?
Dr. Christmas. Not once did I come in contact with them.
Mr. Lea. How many men did you meet in your connection with
the War Department and this aircraft business ?
Dr. Christmas. I do not know; I met a great many of them, all
the wav from lieutenants up to the Secretary of War.
Mr. Lea. About what height are bombing operations ordinarily
canied on ?
Dr. Christmas. Bombing operations, under conditions which are
remote from artillery practice, are carried on at as low an elevation
as possible, because of the certainty of destruction. Where there is
close proximity to artillery practice, they must get as high as possible
to keep shrapnels from tearing the machine to pieces. Bombing
operations have taken place as nigh as 16,000 feet.
Mr. Lea. But what would you say was the height in practice ?
Dr. Christmas. In practice I should say about a mile.
Mr. Lea. You spoke of the De Haviland in particular. As I
understand you, the same objection appUes to it, mndamentally, as
applies to every other machine the Government uses.
Dr. Christmas. Precisely.
Mr. Lea. And practically every machine of the Allies also ?
Dr. Christmas. Exactly.
Mr. Lea. Did Grermany make that same mistake ?
Dr. Christmas. She tried to get away from it as much as poasible
in the Fokker machine. She discovered her mistake. They were
handicapped early in their aircraft production because of lack of
materials, but they did develop a machine called the Fokker,
which afterwards became a biplane as well as a monoplane. The
first Fokker was a monoplane with very high speed, and afterwards
they brought out a biplane Fokker.
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264 WAR EXPENDITURES.
Mr. Lea. Those wings are supported by wire braces in the Fokker,
are they not ?
Dr. Christmas. No.
Mr. Lea. They are on the same general plan as yours ?
Dr. Christmas. Yes: they have a strut, however, in between the
wings, but no tension of brace wires.
Mr. Lea. Yoxir plan of machine is consistent with the biplane or
not?
Dr. Christmas. Monoplane and biplane both.
Mr. Lea. That feature is appUcable to both ?
Dr. Christmas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lea. Li reference to the statement of Lieut. Hosp, what is his
position in reference to your company ?
Dr. Christmas. He is employed at present by our company; yes,
sir. He was a total stranger, of course, when he appUed for a position.
Mr. Lea. You know nothing about the facts to which ne made
reference ?
Dr. Christmas. None whatever, sir.
Mr. Lea. Was he in the service during the war ?
Dr. Christmas. He was. He was a very fine flyer. He under-
stands the mechanics of flying and construction; and he was also a
stimt instructor and a cross-country flying instructor.
Mr. Lea. Did you call attention of the department to your design
in reference to bombing planes at any time alter the letter you wrote
to Gen. Squier April 7, 1917?
Dr. Christmas. I did everything I could, sir, to make Gen. Squier
appreciate the fact that the type of machine which should be the
determining factor in this war would be the bombing plane.
Mr. Lea. Did you take up the construction of that model with
anybodv in the War Department?
Dr. Christmas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lea. With whom did you take it up ?
Dr. Christmas. I took it up with Gen. Squier, Gen. Saltzman.
Col. Mitchell, Col. Clark, Col. Payne, and, my goodness, I do not
know how many others.
Mr. Lea. What, in substance, did they tell you was the reason
why they would not adopt your plane ?
Dr. Cbristmas. I never coula get the slightest bit of anything
definite from them at all. It was always, ''You go and see S<Hand-
so," and later I would see So-and-so, and he woiud say, *' What did
you come to me for? You go and see So-and-so," and after I had
passed that buck aroimd in every direction, I would come back to
the Secretary of War, and he wotild say, "What do you come to see
me for. Doctor ? I do not know anytmng about aeroplanes."
Mr. Lea. So you never got anybody uiat would turn you down,
absolutely?
Dr. Christmas. No. 01«aughter.]
Mr. Lea. In reference to the request that was made that your
machine be sent to the McCook Field for test, who made that request,
or was that your suggestion ?
Dr. Christmas. Tney insisted upon it being sent there.
Mr. Lea. Who insisted upon it?
Dr. Christmas. Col. Vincent.
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AVIATIOK. 265
Mr. Lea. Had you be^n at the McCook Field before that?
Dr. Christmas. Yes.
Mr. Lea. Li reference to having your machine tested?
Dr. Christmas. I went there firat to see whoever was in authority,
and that was Col. Vincent at the time, and Col. Vincent was really
verj nice. He listened very patiently to what I had to tell him,
which occupied a session of possibly an hour or an hour and a half.
He agreed with me in what I had to say, and I was really pleased
with the interview, beUeving that something was really going to
come out of it. When I got back and began to correspond with him,
it aU petered out.
Mr. Lea. What date was that statement made in which they re-
quested to bring it there ?
Dr. Christmas. Jime 13, 1918.
Mr. Lea. Yoxir machine had not been in the air up to that time,
had it — ^in fact, it was not assembled at that time, was it ?
Dr. Christmas. We were waiting for the motor. It was assembled,
but the motor had not been received from the McCook Field.
Mr. Lea. What is meant by the ''sand test" ?
Dr. Christmas. That should be thoroughly understood by this
committee, because it is so essential to the development of aeroplanes.
When engineers wish to build a bridge, and particularly if that bridge
is a parallel-truss bridge — a cantilever or truss bridge would have no
reason for sand testing, because they know in the beginning that
bridge is all right, because it is a cantilever bridse — ^but a parallel
truss would represent like thiia piece of paper [illustrating], and
another one right underneath like tnat, and it has struts in connection
with it connected with bridge wire, like -you see there [indicating].
The integrity of that truss is entirely dependent on the breaking of
those wires — not the truss, but the wires. The reason that the truss
is weak is because these straining members, top and bottom, like in
the same plane, are parallel to one another, so that when a weight is
put upon it, as soon as the upper member begins to break down then
the lower member begins to break down, because they are the same
distance apart. And a lot of sand bags are put on this truss and
evenly distributed on there or distributed in spots, and you can very
readily determine what is the strength of that truss, because it is a
stiff truss, and it has a more definite mathematical formula.
If you then wish to determine the strength of another truss which
has a capacity of vibration which is so great that its amplitude, as it
is called — that is, its bending, to such a d^ree that you put a load
on it, the load would bend it down, but it won^t break it. Li this
type [indicating] of truss it will break it right through, because the
truss will hold together as long as the wires remain intact; as soon as
they give way the whole structure completely disassembles itself.
Civil engineers know this to be so true that their strongest type of
bridge construction is the cantilever type, which has been developed
through general knowledge, of which tne piano wire bridge or the sus-
pension bridge is also a type.
Mr. Lea. The substance of it is that it is simply a question of
strength ?
Dr. Christmas. It is simply a question of strength in building a
type of structure. You can understand, of course, that if a load was
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266 WAR KXPKNDITUUIS.
put on a yielding structure that the same mathematical formula
could not be used in determining its strength that you would use in
this [indicating].
Mr. Lea. It might give, but nevertheless it would hold the same
load?
Dr. Christmas. Exactly so. I discovered that years ago.
Mr. Lea. Is there anything about this test that would cause your
machine to be eliminated simply because it would give ?
Dr. Christmas. Exactl;^; tnat sand test could not be used on this
and get any results. I said to thein, '^You can put the sand on it;
you can load it to the capacity of breaking all to pieces, but you get
no mathematical results from this test, because you are doing two
dissimilar things."
Mr. Lea. Was your objection to the fact that they were applying
what you regarded as an immaterial test ?
Dr. Christmas. Exactly, a foolish, immaterial test.
Mr. Lea. And it was not the fact that they wanted to t.est it ?
Dr. Christmas. Oh, no; certainly not.
Mr. Lea. Did you suggest any other method as a proper test ?
Dr. Christmas. Yes- 1 said to them this: ''I will not only go into
conference with you; 1 will not only discuss this matter to the last
limit of discussion, but I will give vou all my information, all my
knowledge on this subject. The only thing I want to do is to dis-
associate you from this operation, this inoperable plane, which can
not be improved upon. "
Mi-. Lea. Did Col. Vincent or anybody in authority base any op|>osi-
tion to your applying anjr other test that you wanted to your machine f
Dr. Christmas. Yes, sir. * They won't apply any other test. They
will say ''Sand test; if you don't like the sand test, get out. "
Mr. Lea. Have you the correspondence in regard to that ?
Dr. Christmas. 1 would like to say to the committee that in build-
ing machines or anything for the Government it is the most thankless
task in the world, because it takes you an awfully long time to get
Jour money — after you have completed your work. So, I could not
y any manner of means be charged with a disposition to criticize
the Government. I do not want to do that. What I am oriticiang,
and rightlv so, is the methods. I am criticizing a condition of affairs
here which will positively result in nothing. It will take you no-
where; it will leave you some place and leave you there for good, too.
The Government is about to expend an amoimt of money on aero-
planes again. Not a billion, but a great many millions, but they are
going to do the identical same thiiig they did before, in the face of
all of this opposition, and in face of all this information that has been
given to them, and that money is going in the same direction pre-
cisely that the other billion and a quarter went — ^the same thing is
going to happen.
Mr. Lea. That is because the machine they have can not be im-
proved.
Dr. Christmas. No, sir; it is not properly designed and Is entiivly
at variance with natural law, and you can not ever make anything
operable if you do not recognize the laws of nature; you can not do
that. It has never been done yet.
Mr. Lea. Now, let us have that correspondence.
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AVIATION. 267
Dr. Christmas. As far as the financial side of the proposition goes,
the Government's basiness is not attractive to our concern in any
manner. We have enough business from private interests to keep
us busy as long as we like.
Mr. Lea. They were willing to supply you with the engine pro-
viding you would install it. That is a Liberty 6; they say: '
We are perfectly willing to let you use this engine to put up the plane and try it,
providii^ that you will help us to safeguard it as follows: We will ship it to you for
installation in the plane, and after it has been properly installed you will ship the
plane to the McCook Field, shipping at the same tune a spare plane of exactly the same
construction, so that we can test it and determine whether it has a proper factor of
safetjr. We would also reserve the right to have more engineers go over the plane
aft«r it is received here and check it areodynamically, and make sure it is in condition
to make a successful flight.
These precautions may seem elaborate to you, but we have lost
several liberty 12 engines from crashes, where we were not per-
mitted to take the precautions outlined above. This, of course, was
serious enough in tne case of the Liberty 12, as everyone is needed,
but it wouUf be much more serious in the case of the Liberty 6, as
we only have one available. [Continues reading:]
I am giving orders to have our Liberty 6 put in condition, which will take three or
four days, and if I receive a wire from you tnat you are willing to handle this matter as
outlined above, I will have the engine shipped to you promptly.
By authority of the Director of Aircraft Production, J. G. Vincent, lieutenant
colonel, United States Army, Chief Engineer.
Dr. Christmas. They would not budge one inch from the pro
cedure that they had been following for an indefinite and indeter-
minable time.
Mr. Lea. In substance, they reserved the right to make their owt)
tests?
Dr. Christmas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lea. Is your reply to that letter here? Was any objection
ever made to your being there to watch the tests they made ?
Dr. Christmas. No.
Mr. Lea. Could you not, by your own presence, have protected
your machine against any unjust test?
Dr. Christmas. Certainly not.
Mr. I^EA. Why not?
Dr. Christmas. Why, after I had given it to them and put them in
complete control of the testing of this, I could not have done any-
thing. I could protest against that procedure.
Mr. Lea. Why do you say they wanted to break the machine up;
is it because it would not stand this particular sand test?
Dr. Christmas. No. I felt from the wslj the whole proposition
was handled there was a very strong disposition to have my machine
come there and smash it up — ^just tell me ''that won't do. Doctor.''
Hiatvery important point was brought out in the Hugnes inves-
tigation.
They will determine just how much financial help some of those
Eoor devils had that were fools enough to send their plans there and
aving found that out they would smash their machines up.
Mr. Lea. Did you see any of those tests ?
Dr. Christmas. I did not see them. I am just telling you what
came out in the Hughes investigations.
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268 WAR EXPENDITURES.
Mr. Lea. They made similar tests of a great many machines^ did
they not?
Dr. Christmas. Yes.
Mr. Lea. What I am getting at is, have you any specific evidence
that justifies you in saying that was their purpose in breaking your
macmnes ?
Dr. Christmas. I have no specific facts. You mean did I ever
hear anybody say that ?
Mr. TjEA. Yes.*^
Dr. Christmas. No; but the attitude of these men toward me
was enough to tell me.
Mr. Lea. They did not receive your proposition with any friend-
liness, you mean ? "^
Dr. Christmas. None whatever. I could not get the slightest bit
of cooperation and friendliness or disposition to do the thing right.
Mr. Lea. So your belief is they wanted to break your machine up
and that was your own conclusion for that reason ?
Dr. Christmas. Yes.
Mr. Lea. Now, you spoke of Germany having made a large offer
to you for your services; when was that?
Dr. Christmas. That was before this country entered the war?
Mr. Lea. And do you recall the exact date?
Dr. Christmas. No; I can not recall that.
Mr. Lea. By whom was the oflFer made?
Dr. Christmas. It was made through certain German agents.
Mr. Lea. Do you have any reason that you would prwer not to
give their names ?
Dr. Christmas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lea. But they did not ask you to commit any offense or any-
thing of that kind, did they ?
Dr. Christmas. They wanted me to get out of the country.
Mr. Lea. For what reason ?
Dr. Christmas. So that I could not give my services to this
country.
Mr. Lea. Why do you say that ?
Dr. Christmas. Because they thoroughly appreciated my knowl-
edge on the subject; they thought that the knowledge I possessed
would be of considerable annoyance to the German afi^iis.
Mr. Lea. Their object, then, was to deprive the country of your
knowledge and skill more than it was to give it to Germany.
Dr. Christmas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lea. Did the terms on which they made that offer involve
your leaving this country and going to Germany?
Dr. Christmas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lea. For how long?
Dr. Christmas. Three years.
Mr. Lea. Nominally were you to perform any service in Germany I
Dr. Christmas. I certainly was; 1 was to develop their air forces.
Mr. Lea. Any particular character of work that you were sup*
posed to perform for which they made this offer?
Dr. Christmas. Yes, sir; I was to develop the aeroplane for
military use.
Mr. Lea. Why do you say that the main purpose was to deprive