Mr. Sligh. I know they were. They asked for this advance of
$500,000, and offered to give ample security, and said if that was
done they would extend their railroad and they would ajgree to
produce — oh, a very large increase. It don't come to my mind just
at this minute; I think 1 have a memorandum that I could substanti-
ate it. This came just about the time that I was superseded in this
work. They were there at that time, and I made a written com-
munication, recommending that this be made. A few days after-
wards I was superseded and it was turned over to Leadbetter, and
instead of carrying out that recommendation he wired Col. Disque
and IHsque wired back to have it commandereed.
Mr. Frear. I am getting this cost of production. If 6,000,000 f«et
could be produced a month of spruce, that is, this was for airplane
stock.
Mr. Sligh. Airplane stock.
Mr. Frear. If that could be produced a month, that would be over
70,000,000 feet ayear,andbydomg — putting on night crews or doubling
the crews in the woods; of course, as far as the rnills were conccmecl,
it was immaterial; they could, you say, saw up any quantity. Now,
by doubling the crews in the woods, what would have "been the
difference in the amount of production of spruce ?
Mr. Sligh. Well, probably doubling the crews would not have
doubled the production, but it would very largely increase it, probably
two-thirds.
Mr. Frear. There were 2,000 men sent out there under Disque ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes, sir.
Mr. Frear. Soldiers.
Mr. Sligh. Yes.
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616 WAR EXFENDITUBBS.
Mr. Freak. And added to 'the crews that were there before.
Mr. Sligh. Yes.
Mr. Frear. Now, with that number of crews working there, do
you know what they would have been able to have done ?
Mr. Sligh. WeD, the information that was given me when I wis
out West — 1 was out West the first of May, 1918, and I went down to
the Vancouver barracks, and he had 2,000 men at the Vancouver
barracks; the sawmill had been in operation but it was a fiuhire and
he had to reconstruct the whole thing.
Mr. Frear. At Vancouver?
Mr. Sligh. At Vancouver. They had put in the wrong kind of
saws. They had put in circular saws when they should have put in
band; and he did not know the difference between a band saw and t
circular; and it was being reconstructed at that time. It had omly
been in operation a couple of months. There were 2,000 men on the
OToimd there and they were only working about 200 or 300 of them.
The man in charge of operations told me
Mr. Frear. What was the rest of them doing ?
Mr. Sligh. Marching time, marking time; doing nothing. Tbej
were recorded at the Vancouver Barracks there doing nothing. The
man running the sawmill told me it did not nm sometimes 6 hours
or 10 hours. They were building the dry kiln. If it had run night
and day, he said the total force would nave been about 990 men:
so that two shifts would have had use for leas than 1»200 men if the?
wore running double shifts; but they were not doing that.
Mr. Frear. That was at the mill ?
Mr. Sligh. At the mill.
Mr. Frear. That was useless, you say, because the other shifu
were not occupied anyhow. They could have sawed that without
the use of this Vancouver mill ?
Mr. Sligh. I say the Vancouver mill was an absolute waata of
money.
Mr."^ Frear. What about the Toledo mill ?
Mr. Sligh. The Toledo mill, that was not operated, waa itt
Mr. FiyEAR. No. But they used $800,000 in constructing it.
Mr. Sligh. Yes, sir.
Mr. Frear. The report already made the other day shows that
If *the Vancouver plant cost $1,975,775, do you know whether thti
includes any cutting of lumber in the plant?
Mr. Sligh. I didn't know it cost as much as that. I knew it w»
oyer a million.
Mr. Frear. The Toledo on Maumee Bi^, according to Uup. o«t
$821,825. Was that sawmill necessary, from your standpoint nr
oould the loggers have furnished it without?
Mr. Sligh. Those logs, of course, could have been transportad u>
some other mill. That was to cut the lumber of the Blod^tt tract
was it?
Mr. Frear. They never got anything out of the Blodgett tract,
and this mill was never in operation ana never used.
Mr. Sligh. The Blodgett tract, as you know, was paid for aft«r
the armistice was signed.
^Ir. Frear. I know it was. But I want to get some facts bm
you. The Simms Carey Corporation received $3,988,5 11 for biiildin{
a railroad from Lake Crescent to Lake Pleasant 40 miles long. tt»
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AVIATION. 617
ship spruce 40 miles away. That is at the rate of over $100,000 a
mile, which is a oontinuation of the Milwaukee system.
Mr. Sligh. John D. Ryan was a director.
Mr. Freak. He is connected with the executive committee, and
also the board of directors, and at the same time he was a director
of the aircraft activities at Washington. What I wanted to ask
you, was it necessary to build that railroad ? If so, for what purpose ?
Mr. Sligh. Well, I don't think my testimony would be valuable
to you for that, for it is all hearsay.
Mr. Frear. Just a moment. If these mills in operation could out
the amount of spruce that was required
Wr. SuGH. Oh.
Mr. Frear. If the loggers that could have been employed were able
to furnish all the logs that were necessary to keep them employed,
I am asking what was the purpose in building a railroad 38 miles
long at a cost of over $100,000 a mile, in the neighborhood of $125,000
witn another allowance down here — $125,000^— to ship spruce 40
miles away ?
Mr. Sligh. Nothing.
Mr. Frear. I am quoting from Maj. Ray.
Mr. Sligh. From your standpoint it was an absolute waste of
money.
Mr. Frear. What, in your judgment, was the necessity for building
a railroad from Newport north and Newport south to tap the different
sections of country there for the purpose, as announced, of getting
out spruce ? Was there any, so far as you can ascertain, and if so,
what?
Mr. Sligh. I don't know about that Newport proposition. I am
ignorant on that.
Mr. Frear. Do you know anything about the Blodgett tract ?
That is about 25 miles south of Newport.
Mr. Sligh. Mr. Blodgett is a neighbor of mine.
Mr. Frear. In Michigan ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes, sir; a neighbor of mine; we live in the same block.
I was informed when he was there with his attorney, Mr. Mark Norris,
who had been called there for the purpose of negotiating the purchase
of this. Mr. Blodgett asked for $685,000 for this tract.
Mr. Frear. How much timber was on that ?
Mr. Sligh. There was something like 600,000,000 timber on it.
Mr. Frear. Do you know what the estimate was of spruce ?
Mr. Sligh. Mr. Blodgett gave me those figures at the time, but my
impression is about 265,000,000 of spruce. That is my recollection
now.
Mr. Frear. Would you say, judging from the estimates we have
that that was all airplane stocK ?
Mr. Sligh. Oh, no; no; no.
Mr. Frear. Then what proportion of airplane stock would that be
likely to average ?
Mr. Sligh. Well, the experience in regard to cutting spruce was
that the method that was adopted only produced about 15 to 20 per
cent of airplane stock.
Mr. Frear. Then if a road was being built 25 miles south to strike
this Blodgett tract, it would reach about 30,000,000 feet of spruce,
according to that statement ?
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618 WAR EXPENDITURES.
Mr. Sligh. Exactly; suitable for airplane purposes.
Mr. Frear. For airplane purposes.
Mr. Sligh. Yes.
Mr. Frear. I want to get back to that Blod^ett tract, if you please.
Mr. Sligh. Mr. Blodgett saw Disque on Disque's invitation, and
Disque referred him to Col. Hitchcock. He told me Hitchcock
assumed a very dictatorial, bluflSng attitude toward him, and when
he made his price of $635,000 that Hitchcock told him it was not
worth that and he would not pay it; and he said that he had a friend
of his that would buy the property for $450,000.
Mr. Frear. Did he give the name of the friend ?
Mr. Sligh. Blodgett gave it to me at that time. No, he did not
give it to me at that time; that he would pay $450,000.
Mr. Frear. Hitchcock was the man, the contractor ?
Mr. Sligh. Hitchcock was the man that did that work under
Disque.
Mr. Frear. Yes.
Mr. Sligh. Blodgett told him he would not sell it for that pric«^
and he accused Blodgett of being impatriotic. And Mr. Blodgett is
one of the most patriotic men in the country, and it is demonstrated:
and he called him sort of hard names. He told him if he would not
take that price for it he would see it was commandeered and he
would not get that much for it. So Blodgett told him to go ahead
Disque haa just been called down there by the department to show
why he was notgetting results.
Mr. Frear. when was that ?
Mr. Sligh. That was about the 1st of July, 1918. Oen. Camack
had made a complaint to the department that Disque was not pro-
ducing as much as Sligh did, and it was on account of that com-
plaint from Gen. Camack, he showed he had about 125,000 under his
control, and we had nothing but volunteer labor. BStchcock wiwd
him from Portland; he wired Disque, and Disque wired back he
would commandeer it. He thought he would bluff Blodgett into it
But Blodgett was a man that could not be bluffed. He knew his
rights and he knew he was asking a reasonable price.
Mr. Frear. Down to that time had there been any railroad buiH—
down to that time ?
Mr. Sligh. Hitchcock then said, ' ' If you won't seU this for 1450,000
we want you to build a railroad in there for the benefit of the Got-
emment."
Mr. Frear. That is 25 miles to Newport ?
Mr. Sligh. I don't know what distance it was. It was going U>
cost him, I think, $160,000, something of that kind. Blodgett said
that would not be for the benefit of the Oovemment; that would be
for the benefit of that tract. And he refused to do it. This was
carried on for some time.
Mr. Frear. Blodgett is familiar with all these matters ?
Mr. Sligh. Oh, thoroughly.
Mr. Frear. These are matters he has stated to you ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes^ sir.
Mr. Frear. It is simply for our information.
Mr. Sligh. He gave me that information in Portland. And afWr
I returned here, along about two or three months later, he called in«
to his office and he read over to me a lot of letters and correspondence.
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AVIATION. 619
in the presence of Mr. Mark Norris, in regard to this matter before
they had arrived at a settlement, and along about August, I think it
was, when Disque found he could not bluff him he agreed to buy the
tract from him for $635,000.
Mr. Freab. How much would that be a thousand ?
Mr. SuoH. Probably a little over $1 a thousand; $1.15.
Mr. Frear. For spruce ?
Mr. Sliqh. For everything.
Mr. Frear. I suppose it was spruce," hemlock, and fir.
Mr. Sligh. Yes, sir; and probably cedar.
Mr. Frear. And probably cedar.
Mr. Sliqh. It was worth that. The agreement was made, as soon
as Blodgett got the abstracts all ready, that they woidd buy it.
WeU, he got his abstracts and he got his title all perfected, and it was
along — ^he told me in October some time, early in October.
Mr. Frear. October, 1918?
Mr. Sligh. October, 1918; and he never got his money for it until
after the armistice was signed.
Mr. Frear. Were the contracts completed and everything before
that?
Mr. Sligh. He told me that he had done his part but the contract
for the purchase had not been consummated until after the armistice.
Mr. Frear. Was there any reason given for not paying it imtil
after the armistice ?
Mr. Sligh. No reason given. Of course, I tried to pymp him;
there was rumors that he paid $25,000 for it. But Mr. Blodgett is
not that kind of a man.
Mr. Frear. Do you know that the rumor of Col. Disque was that
this lumber could be resold and the report of the forests is that it
shoidd be retained under Government ownership ?
Mr. Sligh. No.
Mr. Frear. That correspondence will be inserted later on in the
record. What else do you know about the Blodgett tract?
Mj. Sligh. That is substantiallv all that I know about it.
Mr. Frear. Do you know anything about the railroads down there
to be built?
Mr. Sligh. There was another tract that a Grand Rapids man was
interested in that is un by Clallam.
Mr. Frear. In the Northwestern portion ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes, six. Mr. Butterneld of Grand Rapids and W. F.
Keeney and the James Estate and George Lacey are large owners
there.
Mr. Frear. How near the coast, do you know ?
Mr. Sligh. It is not near the coast. It is more accessible to Puget
Sound.
Mr. Frear. I mean the sound.
Mr. Sligh. They built a railroad to that and got just to the edge of
that when the armistice was simed. I think that was the St. Paul
road, if I am not mistaken. Mr. Keeney and Mr. Butterfield both
went out there to consummate those arrangements. Both of those
fentlemen are men of the highest character and integrity; they are
oth of them attorneys, and they have a very high reputation in
Michigan, and they are both oi them very good lawjrers. Mr.
Herman Hitchcock tried the same bulldozing tactics with them.
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620 WAR EXPENDITURES.
They offered to sell him theu* spruce at S5. He offered them, I
think, $1.50. And eventually they compromised by the depart-
ment making a contract to pay them $5.
Mr. Frear. That is in Clallam Coimty ?
Mr. Slioh. That is in Clallam County; about 5,000 acres there:
they built a road practically up to their land, I am told, but they never
cut any. It was the same bulldozing tactics that he assumed to-
ward Blodgett.
Mr. Frear. You say the same bulldozing tactics. What would
you say he was trying to do; was he trying to benefit anycHie)
Mr. Sligh. The reason Blodgett gave me that he was trying to
make the piu-chase for $180,000 less than his price, for the benefit of
a friend that would like the property.
Mr. Frear. ^Vnd resell to the Government.
Mr. Sligh. Resell to the Government.
Mr. Frear. That was his iudgment, then ?
Mr. Sligh. That was Hitcncock's proposition, that he had a man
who would buy it for $450,000 and take it out.
Mr. Frear. What was the reason given ?
Mr. Sligh. Mr. Keeney and Mr. Butterfield had several talks ^ith
me but they never gave
Mr. Frear. Did he say it was for the Government or some other
party ?
Mr. Sligh. He did not sav whether it was for the benefit of some
friend or the benefit of the Government.
Mr. Frear. Did Hitchcock afterwards remain in the employ of the
Government ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes, sir. He was colonel, and aften^'ards made maji»r.
Mr. Frear. Did he afterwards resign ?
Mr. Sligh. I don't know that he resided. He came from Cleve-
land and was reported as being an intimate friend of Newton D.
Baker's.
Mr. Frear. What else do you know, major, that is of—thit
occurs to you now, of any special interest ?
Mr. Sligh. I don't think of anything else just this minute.
Mr. Frear. I have some communications here that I do not care
to refer to particularly. Did you ever hear of the Ix>ngacre report
made in July, 1918, to Maj. Wolf?
Mr. Sligh. No, sir; I never did.
Mr. Frear. He makes one or two statements, and I want to isk
you if you are familiar with them; he was sent out hj the Govern-
ment and I talked with him in my office, and this is ms report, an<1
this is an extract I am reading, and I want to ask you if nis judg-
ment in regard to this as a Government inspector is right. He stys
in his report:
The yield of airplane stock from both sawn and rived cants at the cut-up plant i •?
the month of Marcii, and during which Lieut. Walker chaiiged the coaU 8. r. D.. vt^
19 per cent No. I wing beam; 7 per cent No. 2 area: 19 per cent No. 3 area.
What are the definitions to be applied to those, *' 19 per cent So. I
wing beam'^ that is, of course, for the wing beam on airplanes.
''Seven per cent No. 2 area/' what would that be?
Mr. Slioh. No. 2 area, those were specifications that were in-
stalled by Col. Disque several months after he was put in chutt
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AVIATION. 621
there; and I have a copy, I think, at home, but I have not here with
me, defining the grading.
Mr. Freak. Defining the grading?
Mr. Sligh. Yes.
Mr. Frear. The 19 per cent No. 3 area, that is the system of
grading that he adopted ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes. There is an excess always of short sizes that are
suitable for that work. But the wing beam is the long sizes; it has to
be about 18 feet or longei , and it has to be clear, and for which a large
price has always been paid. And then the shorter pieces can be
gotten out of it — that is, the other can be gotten out of the shorter
pieces and be eaually as good, the quality is equally as good, but it
18 not as valuable because it might be cut out of slabs or something
Mr. Frear. Longaere says:
No lose of log measure aa against board feet when cut for plane operations above
14 per cent.
Do you know what he means by that ?
Mr. Sligh. I assume by that he claims they got everything,
except there was 14 per cent loss on the log measurement.
Mr. Frear. Yes.
Mr. Sligh. This is a very extravagant proposition, though.
Mr. Frear. I just want the definitions and we will come to the
point of your passing judgment upon it later. This was a Govern-
ment inspector sent out there [reading]:
Test of yield No. 1 and No. 2 selected spruce might be Mr. Breeze's plan during
the week b^inning April 1 —
Let me say Mr. Breeze is George E. Breeze, and he was a can-
didate for governor in West Virginia, and he is an owner of several
spruce sawmills in operation.
Breeze had a different plan. Test of yield, No. 1 and No. 2 selected spruce might
be Mr. Breeze's plan during the week beginning April 1, 24.3 No. 1 wing beam;
53.3 No. 2 and 3 area; 77.6 total.
Now, he says here — and this important for us by way of informa-
tion :
Note. — ^This test was from commercial logs, and the overrun in board feet as against
log measure was 20 per cent. This means a difference in results between cants
developed into lumber. Their cut-out plant had a loss of 14 per cent on commercial
logs developed into lumber, was a gain of 20 per cent, or a net gain of 30 per cent,
in favor of the commercial log as a basis.
Do you get that ?
Mr. Sliqh. Yes; I get what he means,
Mr-. Frear. He states:
Fully 75 per cent of the tree from which rived cants are taken will be left in the
woods, leaving an extraordinar>' amount of waste and may be destroyed from forest fires.
Just talking on the riving proposition. Now, he states further
in his report:
Assuming that one of the Porter Bros, was correct in his statement —
Porter Bros, were contractors.
Mr. Sligh. I know them.
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622 WAR EXPEKDITURBS.
Mr. Fbear (reading):
That operations would deliver under his contract of January 1, 30,000.000 feet ^
rived cants. This would mean that in the district covered by* their operation th<r*
is approximately 1,140,000,000 feet of standing spruce timber.
That is, where Porter Bros, were operating?
Mr. Sligh. Yes.
Mr. Fbeab (reading) :
Following their operations along the line of previous astimatea gives the folIoiriLj
results approximately:
Thirty million feet of rived cants, at $130 —
That was the price out there. [Continuing reading:]
$3,000,000.
Sawing, at $15 a thousand, $450,000; or $4,350,000 for that—
It says 30,000; it means 30,000,000. He says that —
Fifteen million feet of airplane timber, 275,000 board feet log measure.
That is what they get out of it, as I understand. I don't know
whether you have got that clear or not. I am willing yon shotild
take this statement, and I wiU add this to it, and you can mak(>
your explanation for us. I expect to have him later before th^
committee, but I want your opinion as well on it. He takes Breew*
system and he says 627,000,000 feet of commercial logs at *3i''
reaches $1,881,000; sawing, at $15, the same rate, $940,500: a t^ta!
of $2,821,500.
Mr. Sligh. He claims that was actual results ?
Mr. Frear. I don't know whether he claims the actual results ««r
whether it is estimated. But, in any event, it is the difference
between $4,350,000 with the plans that were being pursued
Mr. Sligh. Yes.
Mr. Frear. And the plan as proposed would reach $2,821.(H"'
Then he gives an additional statement here; it is not very long: I
believe I will read it, and I believe I would like to have your explan»-
tion to the committee if you can give it to us. Quoting from the
report:
There was delivered to the various spruce districts of Orc^n and Waahinstoo dunu
the 12 months ending April 1, 1918— the first 11 months actual figures, the Iwt mi
mated by Mr. Longacre, of the bureau of forestry- of Portland — approxilB•lr^
350,000,000 feet of commercial spruce logs. Assuming that 65 per cent, Brrer* *
estimate —
This is a practical logger. [Continuing reading:]
were No. 1 and No. 2 commercial logs, the same will yield 113.750,000 feel nf at-
plane spruce lumber, properly manufactured, inspected, and used.
That is during the year. [Continuing reading:]
I understand that the Grovemment^s requirement at the present time is app^-^i
mately 220,000,000 feet per annum of aiiplane spruce lumber: we would myt '
double the present natural supply of spruce logs to obtain requirements. In ^ir« '*
the fact that mills are already in operation that could manufacture a laiige tncTSwr
over this amount, and with only logging production speeding up the wndeftaitr;
does not seem impossible by any means.
In other words, he states at the present time: that is, before th/e^
railroads were built, before the X'ancouver cut-up plant was built
before the cut-up plant at Port Angeles, the cost of which was in Ik*-
neighborhood, I think, of a million dollars, before the cut-up plant »i
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AVIATION. 623
Toledo, which it was shown was over $800,000, and these various rail-
roads — that at that time the v were producing or could produce at that
time 113,000,000 feet, and they could double that by increasing the
logging operations. Now, that accords with your own judgment, as
I imderstand.
Mr. Sliqh. They have had a sawmill capacity for doing this.
Mr. Frbab. Yes.
Mr. Sligh. Yes, sir.
Mr. Frear. Now, will you explain to us about that distinction that
he makes there, if you can, between those figures I gave?
Mr. Sligh. I don't like to testify in regard to anything that I
don't
Mr. Frear. I am not asking you to testifv. I am asking you to
explain what his method of computation is, if you can do it. This is
from an official report as rendered Maj. Wolf.
Mr. Sligh. There is always an increase between log scale and the
sawing scale.
Mr. Frear. Yes, sir.
Mr. Sligh. Which will run anywhere from 10 to 20 per cent
increase. That is, when a log is sawed up it will produce 10 to 20
pre cent more than the log scale.
Mr. Frear. What is the reason for that, briefly ?
Mr. Sligh. Why, the reason is, under modem methods where they
are using band saws there is less curve than there used to be.
Mr. Frear. That is, less waste.
Mr. Sligh. Less waste. When they used to use the old saw we
take out a quarter of an inch by sawing. Now it takes out less than
an eighth of an inch. And there is always a consequent increase
between the sawed lumber and the log scale. That, I think, is rea-
sonable. But my judgment would be that he is exaggerating the
amount of airplane lumber that he secured by these methods. I
would not want to say just how much, because a man could not
unless
Mr. Frear. This is not what he secured but what could be secured
under the conditipns, the two different plans proposed.
Mr. Sligh. Under this proposition there is 48 per cent here that
he claims could have been gotten out of a log in one and 48 in another.
Mr. Frear. Forty-eight per cent, was it, by the process that was
being pursued, I imderstand.
Mr. Sligh. Yes.
Mr. Frear. And 75 out by the process
Mr. Sligh. I think they are botn of them exorbitant.
Mr. Frear. Extravagant?
Mr. Sligh. The lumber was sawed at the Willoughby mill.
Mr. Frear. Let me say Longacre was a practical logger for 20
years, he states in his report.
Mr. Sligh. And that is the first one.
Mr. Frear. That is the first one.
Mr. Sligh. Yes, sir. He is a good deal nearer the truth than the
other man. The spruce that was sawed to dimension at the Will-
oughby mill imder the order I sent out in October, for shipment to
France, produced about 25 per cent. That is, out of a certain quan-
tity of spruce we got 25 per cent of airplane lumber. And the Spad
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