I went into Plattsburg.
Mr. Lea. I see.
Mr, Sligh. I drilled at Plattsburg in 1915 and they do not lak*
anybody over 45, and so, of course, I, being over 45 — hut I nexer
missed a drill and I never missed a meal, and there were a lot •«(
fellows younger than I that did. But when I was asked ti*
accept a commission by Col. Deeds, I gave my age as 52. I wa^
older than that.
Mr. Lea. Were you acouainted with Col. Deeds before that tuw '
Mr. Sligh. I had never oef ore met him imtil I went to Washingtoc
Mr. Lea. And he, of course, took you on the recommendatioo ^*f
these other men.
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AVIATION. 681
Mr. Sliqh. As I say, I received my appointment or request to serve
from Mr. Coffin, and he selected me; I never met him, either. He
selected me because of my recommendations.
Mr. Lea. And did your relations with CoflSin continue to be friendly
until you severed that relation ?
Mr. SuGH. Exoeedinply so, and they are friendly to-day.
Mr. Lea. Were they friendly with Gen. Squires ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes.
Mr. Lea. And to-day ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes, exceedingly so. Gen. Scjuires paid me the highest
compliment for my record, wiiich is the highest one of the Aircraft
Board, in SeptemlJer, 1917.
Mr. Lea. So you are still friendly with Qen. Squires ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes, sir. I personally informed Howard E. Coffin and
G«n. Squires, both of them, of Gen. Deeds's incompetency early in
December, in my judgment. I had an hour and a half interview one
day with Howard jE. Coffin. He called me to his office and he locked
the door and we were alone, and he wanted a statement of the situa-
tion, and I grave it to him, and I told him of Deeds's incompetency.
He said, "Sligh, we have already discovered it, and we are looking
for a successor." He said, '^We have asked Mr. Stettinius to accept
that position and he has agreed to and his name was presented to the
Secretary of War, and the Secretary of War turned him down for
political reasons.'' Those were Mr. Coffin's exact words. And they
were still looking for a successor at the time I made this statement.
Now, I did not mow that, but thev had already discovered it. Other
oflScers, or there was Maj. Sheppler and two or three other officers
there had spoken; they had come to the same conclusion that I did,
that Deeds was not competent, that he was not an executive.
Mr. Lea. Now, was this before or after the trouble arose between
you?
Mr. Sligh. This was after November-8, after I had been suspended.
Mr. Lea. November 8 was the first day that you had any intima-
tion you were to be let out ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lea. 1917?
Mr. Sligh. 1917.
Mr. Lea. And was there any trouble that you know of between
yourself and the other officers up to that time ?
Mr. Sligh. There never had been a word of discussion or dissension
between us at all.
Mr. Lea. And you felt bitterly about that, did you ?
Mr. Sligh. I naturally did. I felt bitterly on account of the way
it was done. Gen. Squires informed me himself later that he regretted
it very much, and he said if it was not a necessity, he says he would
not have done it that way. I went to Gen. Squires in regard to it.
When I told Gen, Squires of Deeds's incompetency, he did not say
aye, yes, or no. But that was early in December, and it took them a
month or two after that before they found a successor. Mr. Potter
was afterwards selected as the man succeeding.
Mr. Lea. Any time before you left or you were to be superseded,
had you complained about Col. Deeds's incompetency ?
Mr. Sligh. No. No; I had not.
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632 WAR EXPENDITUBES.
Mr. Lea. Now, to be candid; and without any reflection on you
whatever, here is a feature that impresses me with your testimony,
that you seemed to entertain a great deal of bitterness affainst men
connected with the aircraft matters: Do you think you nave care-
fully guarded yourself doing an injustice to them ?
Mr. Sligh. Suits for libel; I am financially responsible; if I have
libeled them I am financially responsible. I have dared them to do
it; they have not started anv suit yet.
Mr. Lea. No, no. The thing is this: You stated conclusions this
morning and applied harsh names to these men, and you exhibited a
^eat deat'of bitterness. Now, what I want to call to your attentioa
IS, do you think that you have carefully guarded yourself against
being unjust, in your judgment?
Mr. Slioh. I do aosolutely. Some of these documents wfaidi I
E resented to you, and all of which, and a CTeat many more that I
ave, I can verify the correctness of all of that. I had a method of
getting information directly from the department for two or three
months after I left.
Mr. Lea. Yes.
Mr. Sligh. And I have got possession of a considerable numbtt* of
official documents. And as far as the production is concerned, to
which Col. Morely referred, I have a copy of an official report that was
made to Mr. Coffin. I can substantiate every word that I am tdling
you. I am not guessing.
Mr. Lea. The production is stated, and that will be a certainty.
Mr. SuGH. Yes. I stated the production not only did not in*
crease, but it radically decreased.
Mr. Lea. In that connection it occurred to me that your partin<r
with the service in November, at the beginning of the dead of winter.
would not the fact of winter conditions account for the difference in
production ?
Mr. Sligh. It would if it had not been for the fact that Col. Dl^{u^
had at his command a large army, which if they had knowledge and
worked intelligently, would more than overcome the weather. I
wrote a letter to Mr. Coffin, calling his attention to the fact that the
weather conditions would be such that after the 1st of Decemhw.
that unless provisions were made to take care of it, there would he a
reduction on account of the weather conditions. I have sent you a
copv of that letter.
Mr. Lea. Of course, production would be curtailed on account i»f
the weather ?
Mr. Sligh. There are some sections where the winter does affer;
it, and other sections where the wet weather makes it impracticabW
to take logs, particularly from a commercial standpoint, but »>«
where a man has an army to do it with, and this condition woolil
more than offset the weather conditions.
Mr. Lea. It is a matter of common knowledge, is it not, that the
winter of 1917-18 was an unusually severe winter and that retank^
production in all lines in tliis country ?
Mr. Sligh. I am not prepared to say that.
Mr. Lea. What was tlie maximum production you secured in «»ne
month ?
Mr. Sligii. That was in the month of February; Mr. HawkiTy«
whom I appointed to that position, in control out there, and he di !
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AVIATION. 683
remarkably efficient work. He was appointed early in October, and
his production in the month of October was 3,545,000 feet, and his
proauction was 4,100,000 feet in November. The difference between
Col. Disque and myself is, that when I took charge of it I looked for
experts to look after the business. I took Mr. Perry because he was
connected with the largest kiln-drying business in the country and
knew his business, and when I selected a man to do the work out there
I selected Hawkins, with 20 years' experience. Mr. Morley has
acknowledged that when he went out there he did not know any-
thing about it, and Col. Deeds did not know anything about it, and
Lieut. Col. Hitchcock was ignorant, and every single man that they
put on the job was incompetent, they didn't know their business,
and some of them don't to-aay ; and that is the difference between the
operations I would have conducted and what Col. Disque did con-
duct. We got a large increase during the last two months of our
administration, and ii you will follow down Col. Disque you will find
that it fell down to two and a half million the first month, 2,000,000
the next month, just as soon as Col. Disque took nold of it. Mr.
Morley has stated there was a considerable quantity; he didn't
give any figures; I do not think he knows. As a matter of fact. Col.
Discjue made the statement in his own report that he was going to
proauce 10,000,000 feet of stock to take care of the wants of the
service until the regular production was produced, and that was
made early in the season. As a matter of fact, his total production
for December, when he assumed control, was 2,500,000, for January,
2,000,000, Febniary 2,000,000, and for March 1,500,000 of stock, and
in all did not equal 10,000,000 feet; that was for rive stock. The
rive-stock proposition was a failure and so acknowledged by himself
and discontinued because it cost an untold amount of money.
Mr. Lea. How much time did you spend out there ?
Mr. Sligh, Not any.
Mr. Lea. You were out there afterwards ?
Mr. Sligh. The 1st of last May, two or three weeks in April and
May; on account of my interests there, I had spent for the 10 years
previous to that a great deal of time, on account of my sawmill
interests and timber interests, and I have traveled by horseback,
automobile, and on foot all over the country, and I knew the con-
ditions, I did not have to go out there.
Mr. Lea. Following up this question of production: Are vou
familiar with the figures on pn)duction for the summer and fall of
1918? What was the maximum production; do you know the
figures?
Mr. Sligh. Mr. Morley, in his testimony, spoke repeatedly of
spruce. The spruce production was nominal as compared with the
fir. We succeeded in September of 1917, in having fir substituted
for spruce in any part of a machine — it could be used in any part of
the machine — and most of the production which Mr. Morley referred
to as spruce was fir, and not spruce at all.
Mr. Lea. You have not the figures for the production in the summer
and fall of 1918?
Mr. Sligh. I have the figures up to the 1st of May or 1st of Juno
at my office; after that I paid no attention to it; the figures were
furnished to me from the official reports.
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684 WAR EXPEKDIT^FRES.
Mr. Lea. I understood you to say this morning that you confemHl
with the foreign representatives; is that right?
Mr. Sligh. That work was entirely in my charge.
Mr. Lea. Did our allies have men in this cotmtry who conferrcnl
with you ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lea. Were they experts ?
Mr. Sligh. They were experts; one of them, Lieut. Dureth, of the
French mission, or commission — they all had men, all the (Jovem-
ments had representatives at Washington, who were representing the
purchasing department. Lieut. Dureth of the French mission told
me that his Government looked upon the — this was after I had left
at that time — looked upon the work of Col. Disque as a joke, and they
didn't look for any results. Gen. Carmack of the English Army wa>
the head of the British, and Mai. Pomilio was the head of the Italian^.
They all had their offices in Washington, and it devolved upon me
to carry on negotiations with them and to get their cooperation with
the plan I presented. I personally furnished the contract with the
three Governments by which contracts were made for the spruce and
fir and the lumber which we furnished to them. They were all
represented in this international conference, and I was on intioiate
terms with all of them. I have letters from two of them expresain^
their regrets that I was to leave the service, which came after they
found it out.
Mr. Lea. When the strike occurred in 1917, do you recall what
month that was ?
Mr. Sligh. That was about the 20th or 25th of July, of 1917.
Mr. Lea. What did the strikers demand?
Mr. Sligh. It was an I. W. W. proposition pure and simple, and
they demanded a large increase in pay, and an eightrhour workup
day, and they demanded clean bimks, which was a proper dema^
and which was afterwards conceded; demanded better food, I think,
and a lot of things of that sort; the I. W. W. was an organizatioD
which was violently opposed to the American Federation of Labor.
and they were getting the upper hand in that part of the countrr
and Mr. Gompers wanted them attended to.
Mr. Lea. Were they dealt with as I. W. W.'s, or a labor origani-
zation ?
Mr. Sligh. As I. W. W.'s. Gov. Lister sympathized with them
for political reasons and did not attempt to suppress their outra|^.
while the governor of Oregon did; there was no trouble in Oregon:
the only shortage in Oregon was the natural shortage of labor. If
Ole Hansen had been governor of Washington at that time, wp
would not have had any trouble.
Mr. Lea. When this strike was finally settled, did the men con-
tinue to work until you terminated your services with the Govern-
ment?
Mr. Sligh. In the logging camps they were abandoned, and
sawmills shut down for several weeks.
Mr. Lea. Up to the time of vour resignation ?
Mr. Sligh. ^o; the sawmill men got together and ,they finally
overcame their strike, and we resumed normal conditions about
the 1st of October or latter part of September.
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AVIATIOK. 685
Mr. Lea. What compensation was finally agreed to be paid the
laborers?
Mr. Slioh. That I don't know.
Mr. Lea. You did not have the adjustment of that t
Mr. Slioh. I had nothing to do with that. Our contracts were
with the sawmiU men at a stipulated price, and that is what should
have been followed. If the price was not lai^e enough, to give them
more; but our price for tne No. 1 quality, whicn went in any
part of a machine, was $1Q5, and the maximum price of wing beams
was $150. They made the price themselves and we accepted it,
which was fifteen or twenty dollars more than they could get for the
identical stock sold to the brokers.
Mr. Lea. Do you know what the total production was up to the
time you left there ?
Mr. Sligh. From when ?
Mr. Lea. Say from the beginning of the war?
Mr. Slioh. That would be a very difficult thing, and I don't
believe anybody knows; all the spruce that had been produced
previous to that time had been sold to the brokers and then resold
to the foreign representatives, to the L. W. F. Co., the Dayton-
Wright, and smaller manufacturers. There were only a few pur-
chasers in the United States at that time.
Mr. Lea. While you were in chaise, do you know what the total
production was?
Mr. Slioh. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lea. How much ?
Mr. Slioh. The total production in the month of July
Mr. Lea. I mean for tne whole period ?
Mr. Slioh. Of spruce ?
Mr. Lea. Yes, sir.
Mr. Slioh. Up to the time we entered there was a great deal of stock
manufactured, that was their standard manufacture, and a lot of
them did not recognize our specifications; in August and September
thev had these contracts with the mill and insisted on fulfilling them,
ana they kept on sawing the '^O'' stock, and that is why we entered
there the purchase of the No. 1 stock.
Mr. Lea. This was a more severe requirement, it called for a higher
grade?
Mr. Sligh. Yes; but we were paying the higher price, we paid all
they asked, from 15 to 20 dollars more than they had been receiving
for the same quality of stock previous to that. After we com-
mandeered it, we served notice on them that they must confine their
cutting to our specifications, and if they didn't, there would be
trouble, and they did, to the extent they could get it, the No. 1 and
the winff beam, during the balance of September and October, and
for all shipments which were produced tnrough Russel Hawkins as
the manager there, and who worked intelligently and knew his busi-
ness, was our specifications and not ^^G" list as intimated by Col.
Deeds and Mr. Morley.
Mr. Lea. Where was this lumber finally classified as to quality and
grade ?
Mr. Sligh. When it got down to the airplane manufacturer, it was
all scaled; one of the divisions was an inspection department, and they
had inspectors, and there was a lot of them on the coast, and every
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686 WAB EXPENDITURES.
carload of the lumber sent out was inspected after we commandeered
the stuff, according to our specifications.
Mr. Lea. Before you commandeered it, what was the rule t
Mr. Sligh. It was made by the Pacific Coast Inspection Bureau, a
bureau which they had out on the coast, and I think have now, an
inspection bureau, that when a man seUs lumber he sells it to be
inspected by this inpsection bureau, who are supposed to be impartial,
who make a charge of so much a thousand for doing the work, and
that is charged up against the manufacturer.
Mr. Lea. That is the ordinary conmiercial inspection t
Mr. Sligh. That is the ordinary commercial inspection, and we
utilized during my work there a lai^e number of those inspectors, and
utilized their talent and ability; we did not bring in novices who
never saw a board rule. I have one letter that says one inspector
did not know which end of the board rule to take hold of. We used
men who had knowledge. When Mr. Hawkins took hold of the work
in October, when he found donkeys that were idle he put them to
work, and it was because the work was done intelligently and eoer*
getically that he succeeded in getting the remarkable results in
October and November, and if they had let us alone, we would have
doubled it.
Mr. Lea. How do you account for the large amount of rejections in
the East?
Mr. Sligh. I am glad you asked that question ; it was not darin|r
my regime; it was afterwards, when Col. Disque — ^up to the 1st of
May Col. Disque had gotten practically no resiilts. He had shipped
8.000,000 feet, includm^ the month of March, and Gen. Carmack
claimed he was not gettmg results, and he left for Washington early
in May, and he was on the carpet, and I have been told he had a very
uneasv time of it, and I believe it; and when he went back to Port-
land, ne gave orders to produce and ship out stuff, and it didn't make
any difference much what the quality was, and this G-list stuff that
was shipped out was imder his control and management; and these
articles which I submitted to you from the Grand Rapids Aeroplane
Co., which shows about 80 per cent of G-list and inferior was shipped
under Col. Disque, because the Grand Rapids Aeroplane Co. did not
get a contract imtil the latter part of March, and of every foot of this
6,300,000 feet, only 20 per cent was good and that was snipped under
Col. Disque^s rfigime.
Mr. Lea. I suppose there is a definite record of the rejections of
spruce ?
Mr. Sligh. There ought to be. We kept records while I was in
Washington, but if they have been moved to Portland, the Lord only
knows whore they are.
Mr. Lea. Were there any soldiers there when you left?
Mr. Sligh. Yes; I resigned on January 19, and had nothing to d«»
with the service after December 7.
Mr. Lea. Wlien did tlie soldiers begin going there, do vou know*
Mr. Sligh. They commenced sending them out there in'December;
about Christmas time they had about 2,500, and the number was
rapidly increasecf until he got an army of three or four brigades.
Mr. Lea. Now, you spoke of a letter of Mr. Leadbetter*s about the
property at Vancouver. Did you give that letter to Mr. Freart
Mr. Sligh. No; I will give you a copy before you leave.
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AVIATION. 687
Mr. Lea. Could I see a copy of it now?
Mr. Sligh. Yes. [Producing copy.]
Mr. Lea. Was the contract made that this letter refers to?
Mr. Slioh. Where he wanted to sell ?
Mr. Lea. I understand this letter refers to some contract he wanted
to make. Was the contract made?
Mr. Sligh. No; this letter was written to a friend of his, Johnson,
that he wanted to sell this sawmill property to. and one of the induce-
ments was that he could sell his product to the cut-up plant.
Mr. Lea. Was anything purchased of Leadbetter — any timber or
lands?
Mr. Sligh. If it was, it was purchased after I left, and I have no
knowledge of it.
Mr. Lea. So far as you know, there was no purchase made of
Leadbetter?
Mr. Sligh. No, sir; I could not say there was. This is a copy of
the paper which I was requested by Mr. Charles E. Hughes to submit
to him, which I did.
Mr. Lea. You were a witness before the Hughes investigation ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lea. At Washington ?
Mr. Sligh. At Washington. There is the letter in which he has
o£Fered to sell that property to Johnson for $150,000, and I think
this paragraph is the one he referes to [indicating].
Mr. Lea. That is this paragraph here on page 2; that is the one
niiich you have reference to ?
Mr. Sligh. Yes. Leadbetter was the man who was making the
contracts at that time; he was trying to sell this property to the man,
and he held out the inducement of making the sale that he could
sell his product to the cut-up plant.
Mr. Lea. From whom did you get this letter — from Mr. Johnson ?
Mr. Sligh. I would not dare to teD you who I got it from. I had
several sources of information after I left there. I had several loyal
Mends, who were very much incensed at the action taken, not only
one but several of them, and the^ gave me a great deal of infor-
mation afterwards. They thought it might be useful at some time.
Mr. Magee, We wiU put this letter in the testimony, letter from
Leadbetter to Johnson [reading]:
Washington, D. C, December 26, 1917*
Mr. William Pierce Johnson,
Alaska Building, San Francisco , Calif.
My Dear Will: Thanks for your letter of December 20, and I am glad you have
got vour lumber matters satisfactorily settled.
Within the last few days I have had several telegrams relative to the sale of the
Vancouver Mill property. It seems that this property was wanted for a shipl uilding
plant, and they offered $150,000 for same without machinery'.
I could not help but feel that at this time, in view of the great necessity for lumber,
that this plant, which was designed with an idea of cutting up 125,CC0 feet per day,
should not be dismantled, but should be completed along the lines contemplated, eo
that more spruce and fir could be produced rather than less.
In this connection, the thought came to me that McLellan & l^vitte might' at this
tixAe be more than glad to take over and operate this property, as its proximity to the
nofw cut-up plant at Vancouver makes it especially available for this particular line
of work, and it appeared to me that an arrangement might also be made whereby the
materials not used in the cut-up plant could be used in the paper mills.
The plant at Vancouver, whereas you were probably told that it consists largely of
junk, is really a very complete property, with the exception of the saw mill proper,
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688 WAR EXPENDITUBES.
which is only a temporary mill, with a maximum capacity of 60,000 feet per day
The carriage, head blocks, gang blocks, gang edger and engines, however, are ill
suitable for use in a new plant; and the thought struck me that you znight bring down
from your Ocean Fall mill the machinery necessary to complete the installation, and
have a plant capable of cutting on doul)le shift any amount of stuff that you m^t
get out.
It seems really almost foolish in view of the large prices that are being obtained ivr
materials, to sell logs at even the high prices existing when they can be cut to <«»
much better advantai^e. Then, too, the fact that the Government need? this materi&l
both for building ships and for other purposes, makes it really necesBary that ve
should cooperate in every way possible to increase production; and the easiest inrtbod
I know of IS to start existing plants and furnish the raw materials for same. Ererx -
thing connected with this plant was modern a few years ago. The water system would
cost to-day at least $20,000 to develop. There are 10 boilers installed ready to opente ,
an electric plant of 300 horsepower, complete battery of planers of all desrriptimiv
together with resaws, sash gang, a large xiln capacity, with piles driven to dooMe
same.
It seemed to me that this would be a very central location for such a plant, ai? >• u
can send your spruce clears to the Vancouver cut-up plant, ship timl>ers to adjrinirj
yards, and, your spruce for paper to either Oregon ( ity or Camis, as appeared n«»*
sary. If run on double shift, and you needed more paper, this plant has the propwt)
and is designed for the purpose of putting a machine similar to the later machine? \m\
in at the C'amis mills.
All of these matters are submitted for your consideration, and if they are in lu.#
with any ideas you have, the property can be bought: or, if preferred, to >»e opeiS'^l
as a separate organization, the present interests retaining half.
Sincerely, it seems to me that out of this great necessity for Iuml)er which eiifr'«