Senator Hickexlooper. Before I have even read it?
Miss Kexyon. I don't recall one thing.
Senator Hickexlooper. It is interesting, lou might desire to
check it. It goes to the question of your philosophy. I am told, in
the DecennialChiss Book of 1918, in writing about yourself, you used
these words: "Absolutelv not a Republican, nor a Prohibitionist.
She can't altoo-ether agree with the Democrats, nor can she quite com-
mit herself to Socialists, toward whom perhaps she most inclines.
Six years of nothing at all, of polite visits, existence and travel. How
it reads like the davs before the Russian Revolution. Here comes
a change, and with "about as little ceremony, enter the radical, the
woman economicallv indei)endent, the wage earner, the advocate of
international democracy. Having once started on the downward path,
nothing but disillusion is apparently likely to gtop me."
Do you recall writino; any such sentiments a^ that?
Miss Kexyox. I don't even know what it means. Do you ? I un-
derstand that part about Prohibition and Republicans, but nothing
else.
Senator Hickexlooper. I confess to some confusion, and 1 thought
perhaps you might be able to explain it.
Miss Kenyon. I am afraid I thought I was funny.
Thank vou very much for calling it to my attention.
Senator Hickexlooper. I thought sometimes those historical things
are interesting to go back and review.
Miss Kexyox. My class was also antisuft'rage if I remember aright.
Senator HiCKEXLt)0PER. The question involved, so far as I am con-
eerned— I assure you that I haven't the least evidence, nor do I have
any belief, that you are subversive in any way.
Miss Kenyox. Thank you very much. Senator.
Senator Hickexlooper. Or disloyal. I haven't approached that
from that standpoint at all. Regardless of what other members of
the committee may interpret as the statement Senator McCarthy made,
I interpret the statement he made as suggesting that your membership
or alleged membership in a great many organizations at least later
or presently declared to be subversive is a matter for concern so
far as the security risk goes in public service, especially in the State
Department and its activities.
Senator McMahox. Will the Senator yield at that point? I just
wanted to quote from the record as to what the Senator did charge the
witness with.
Miss Kexyox. I have it here, and it was a little more than member-
ship.
Senator McMahox" (reading) :
I think it is important that the committee know that the Communist activities
of Miss Kenyon are not (jnly deep rooted but extend back through the years. Her
208 STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVEISTIGATION
sponsorship of the doctrines and pliilosophy of this ruthless and godless organi-
zation is not new.
Miss Kenton. Thank yon very much, Senator, and he also at one
point, on page 168, said :
Here again we have this prominent State Department official, Judge Kenyon,
crying aloud in her anguish for a fellow Red —
and he adds —
I call anyone who gets $12,000 a year of the people's money very prominent —
but of course I didn't get it —
a fellow red.
I consider that I have the right to assume that I was charged with
being a Communist, and therefore disloyal, and I don't want to get
angry. I have tried very hard not to.
Senator Hickenlooper. I assure you that I am not taking the posi-
tion that you are a Communist, so far as my views of the matter are
concerned, but I would like to ask you whether or not you are familiar
with Secretary Acheson's criteria on security risks as he has laid
them down before committees of Congress and, I understand, pub-
lished tliem.
Miss Ivenyon. No.
Senator Hickenlooper. Are you familiar with that?
Miss Kenyon. No, I don't believe I know them.
Senator Hickenlooper. Assuming that he has laid down the cri-
teria, among others, that membership in organizations that have been
declared to be subversive by official bodies is a matter for serious
question and examination of the person as* a security risk before
public employment is given them — I say assuming that; if I am in-
correct in that statement I can be corrected — before you took public ,
employment as a representative of this country on the United Nations,
did any official discuss with you the allegations of your membership
in organizations that had been declared to be subversive?
Miss Kenyon. Never. They have come and talked to me about other
people.
Senator Hickenlooper. In the event, and this is a hypothetical sit-
uation, a supposition that I am making, the files in connection with in-
formation on your activities disclose, prior to tlie time of your em-
ployment or representation of this country, allegations of member-
ships in a substantial number of organizations that had been declared
to be subversive by various public bodies, such as the Attorney General,
the House Un-American Activities Committee, or other organizations
of that sort, what is your personal opinion as to whether or not j^ou
should have been interviewed along that line?
I am assinning, for the purpose of this question, and making no al-
legation one way or the other, that there were repeated allegations in
your file of membership in organizations that had been declared sub-
versive. Do you think that you should have been talked to about this
matter for some explanation or inquiry as to liow your name hap-
peiied to appear on these lists as sponsor and otherwise?
Miss Kenyon. Well, Senator, I appreciate your asking me my
o]:)inion as to how the State Department shoidd have handled this and
other cases of dangerous persons. I would thinlc, myself, in the first
place, of the organizations that have been named here, membership in
STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVESTIGATION 209
them is practically not cliar<i;ed to me at all. I have been charfred
Avith sponsoring a number of organizations, some of which I am i)er-
fectly certain I never did sponsor. The ones that I think I did boiled
down to a handful that were probably at the time I belonged not Com-
riumist at all, because I am sure you know about the infiltration of
Connnunists into various organizations, and I would have thought
that it would have been i)roi)er for the State Department, or any other
governmental body, in considering taking someone on their staff, or
whatever that they should look at their record in the round, and look
at all their activities, and not just at a tiny little bit of a group, and
I have recited a number of my acti"vnties here today. There are many
others, during most of my life, which I have not troubled the com-
mittee with going into, because I did not want to take your time or
bore you. I therefore simply hit the high spots of the things which
were inconsistent with the so-called Communist line, and if you were
to look into all my activities, I think you might think yourself, with-
out further questioning of me, that I was a good security risk.
Senator Hickexlooper. Judge Kenyon, the question I asked you
Miss Kexyox. I am sure I have been looked into b}^ everything.
Senator Hickexlooper. The question that I asked you — perhaps I
didn't make it clear, and I merely asked for your opinion.
Miss Kexton. Yes; I understand.
Senator Hickexlooper. In the light of the criteria laid down by
the Secretary of State himself, in whicfi he said that membership in
organizations which had been declared to be subversive, or which were
declared to be subversive by official bodies, was at least a cause for
serious examination of the background and security risk potential of
the individual who is considered for public office. In that light of
those criteria, and then assuming for the sake of this question that
in your files there appeared numerous cases where you were alleged
to have been a sponsor or a member of a number of organizations,
whether it is 20 or 25 or whatever number, but a substantial num-
ber
Miss Kextox. It boils down nearer to six or eight.
Senator Hickexlooper. I am talking about the allegation. I am
not talking about your actual membership. I am talking about the
allegations that you were a member of a substantial number of these
organizations. Wouldn't you tliink that in keeping with the criteria
laid down for examination someone officially should have talked to
you about this matter? Shouldn't it liave raised some question?
Shouldn't they have said, "We will go and see Judge Kenyon. We will
give her an opportunity to tell us about these things."
Here are these allegations. Wouldn't you think that would be a
perfectly normal thing in carrying out the investigating procedure
before appointment as a public official ?
Miss Kextox. It might have been done. Senator. I have no doubt
that very serious consideration was given to my text, but what is gained
by talking to a person and asking them whether they are subversive
or are in favor of overthrowing the Government by force and vio-
lence, when you know perfectly well the answer that you will get
does not seem to me very substantial? I think the things which they
doubtless did do were to talk to people with whom I had been asso-
ciated in various activities, and to get their views on me, which was
210 STATE DEPARTME]S^T EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVEISTIGATION
considerably more intelligent than to come and talk to me. What
do yon think I wonld have said ?
Senator Hickenlooper, I would have said some of the things I have
been saying to you today.
Senator Hickenlooper. I am minded to ask the question, Judge
Kenyon
Miss Kenton. It is the only way I can answer it.
Senator Hickenlooper. Because you so vigorously and so very prop-
erly and so quickly demanded to be heard in this case, when the charges
were made by Senator McCarthy, and I would think that normally
it would therefore be your reaction that of course the State Depart-
ment shoidd have come to you and let you jn-esent your case in this
matter if these things appeared in the file. It would seem to me to
be perfectly consistent.
Miss Kenyon. I understand you now. Senator, and I would say
this. You are now, instead of asking me whether I think this was
something the State Dej)artment should have done, talking about it
in terms of what I would have liked in respect to my own reputation.
Senator Hickenlooper. I am asking you for your judgment. You
are a very able woman, a woman of experience; you are a jurist.
Your opinion, I think, is valuable.
Miss Kenyon. I would have been very happy had they come and
had I been able to answer and to tell them that most of these things
I had had nothing whatsoever to do wnth. I didn't know at the
time that there was a case like this building up against me.
Senator Hickenlooper. Don't you think it was a matter
Miss Kenyon. I have learned a lot lately.
Senator Hickenlooper. That you miglit well have known about,
that they should have talked to you about and told you about?
Miss Kenyon. I would have liked it had they come to me; yes,
indeed. I would have been delighted, and I would have given them
another piece of my mind.
Senator Hickenlooper. With the reservation, Mr. Chairman, that
I still feel and insist that, inasmuch as this is one of the cases involved
in this matter, the investigative file must be available to this com-
mittee and that I don't consider this to be any kind of a complete
ciuestioning of the witness without the background of those files, I
have nothing more to say at this time.
Senator Tydings. Judge, I would like to ask you one or two ques-
tions.
Have you ever been an employee of the State Department?
Miss Kenyon. My answer would be that I don't think so. I am
not sure what you call a United States delegate to the United Nations.
I had always described myself as a piece w^orker — p-i-e-c-e worker —
for the State Department. I do not think that that position is con-
sidered an employee. I am not sure. Senator. You are asking me a
technical question. That is my only connection ever with the State
Department.
Senator Tydings. The-r.ext question I would like to ask you is. What
was your first notice of the charges that Senator McCarthy had
brought here concerning you?
Miss Kenyon. Wednesday.
Senator Tydings. In the newspapers?
STATE DEPAKTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVESTIGATION 211
Miss Kknydx. At 1-2 o'clock ;i reporter called nie up, and from then
until 1 a. ni. reporters called nie up.
Senator Tydings. Did you have any notice that your name was
ooinir to he called into question before this connnittee before the re-
jiorter called you up ^
Miss Kknyox. I never had the faintest inkling. I was horribly
busy. I had })rofessional engaoements all last week and this and next
week; and tomorrow is income-tax day. and I do some income-tax
woi-k; and 1 was submerged witli things and never once thought about
Congress.
Senator Tynixiis. Thei'e has been no evidence here that anyone who
has made any charge against you has actually seen the files in the
State DeiKirtment, so you, in answering these charges, are in the same
position so far as the connnittee knows as was the witness who brought
the original charges. They were brought, so far as we know, without
any seeing of the State Department files themselves, and consequently
you are here without us having seen the State Department files.
Miss Ken YON. We are all in the same boat.
Senator Tydixgs. I would like to ask 3'on this : When you joined
an}- of these organizations, those that you have particularly identified
yourself with and have given your reason for joining, how did you
come to join them ? Did you organize these things, or were you in-
vited by someone you knew to join ?
Miss Kenyox'. I was always invited. I have always been very busy
with my law practice and then, of course, with my governmental work
during those years of the thirties. Perhaps Government work isn't
quite as trying as practicing law. I seem to have had a little more
time in the late thirties when I was a Government official for extra-
curricular activities, and perhaps that is a pity. But in any event, you
know, I got around, I spoke, and then I have always cared very much,
as I stated, for the under dog; and the American Civil Liberties Union,
of course, has dealt with under dogs ; so people came to me and told me
about projects.
Senator Tydixgs. What character of people suggested that you join
any of these organizations?
Miss KKX'Yt)X. Well, they were just people that I knew.
Senator Tydings. Were they prominent i)eo])le in the community oi
well-known "i-eiiutation, or were they ]:)eo))le that were of shady re))u
tation. or Conununists. or pro-Connnunists. so far as you know, look-
ing back on this record?
Miss Kenyox. I would have said, for the most part, many of them
were friends of mine who do have re])utations, but I also know a lot
of little peo])le who don't have reputations in that sense of the word,
and some of these little groups that have been talked about I surmise
were perhajis in the beginning just a group of little peo])le in some
neighborhood in Xew Yoi-k who had heard me speak and told me
about their idea, and would I hel]) them — nuiybe wovdd I go on the
advisory connnittee while they were trying to organize this tiling, be-
cause I don't entirely deal in the world of Park Avenue and Wall
Street.
Senator Tydings. I did not mean in the economic sense. I meant
in the citizenship sense. Were any of these peo]de who invited you
to join, so far as you knew them, or so far as you know now, members
212 STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVEISTIGATIOK
of the Communist Party, or allied with the Communist Party, or
identified with Communist movements per se ?
Miss Kenyon. At the time when they came to me, I had no idea
that they were Communists, if they were. I have had no idea whatso-
ever in respect to it. As I grew a little older in the thirties I worked
out a policy that I was cooperative and friendly toward most people,
but in respect to Communists, while I would support their civil liber-
ties, my policy was isolationism, and I kept away from them and tried
to keep them away from me. .
Senator Tydings. I have lots of other questions, but I am going to
defer to my two commiteeemen so you may not stay here if we can get
through. Senator Green ? • • i i.
Senator Green. Miss Kenyon, you have many times m reply to a
question referred to your filing system and having found nothing m
your files. I think perhaps it would be just as well for you to say a
few words as to what this filing system was. Was it your habit to
open a file for a new organization you joined, and things like that^
Miss Kenyon. Yes, Senator. I would be very glad to answer that
question. It sounds a little formidah.le to call it a filing system; but,
of course, you know I have my law office ; and we, of course, have my
legal files ; and I have file clerks.
When it has come to the question of these nonlegal matters, but
extracurricular activities, so to speak, my organizational matters,
mv various secretaries from time to time have tried to get order in
them and I have a file of associations. Wliere I have a great deal
to do'with them, the files with respect to them become very voluminous,
and then I have miscellaneous association files. Wlien there are spe-
cific things which become important enough to have a file by them-
selves, they get a file; and then, as 1 say, in the ''miscellaneous comes
in what I would call the cats and dogs, the things that maybe I have
iust contact with for a very short period of time.
I did not. Senator, keep— unfortunately, if I did, I would have to
pay much more rent than I do now— and I cannot keep, all my files
from the beo-inning of time, because every now and then we burst at
the seams and I either have to throw out some old ones or buy some
new filing cabinets or do both, and my office in New York is not a very
bio- one. It is jammed with files. Every now and then we have to
ha'^ve a house cleaning, and out go a lot of little innocent lambs.
I had a file on this Political 1 'ail Fund thing. We had a card tor
it But it ended, you see, in 1934 or 1935, and there wasn t any file.
We had thrown it out. So I was stuck. All I could do was to ask
Roger Baldwin. „
Senator Green. As a rule you have a file of one kind or other tor
any organization of which you are actively a member ?
Miss Kenyon. That's right, and we have cards for them.
Senator Green. And, when you say you haven't found any refer-
ence to it, you infer that in all probability it was ]ust a passing
interest or some minor activity like a speech or something of that
Miss Kenyon. That is precisely it. I also have a speech file, but it
does not go back to the thirties.
Senator Green. My distinguished colleague asked you about a good
many associations and organizations on which your name appeared
STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVESTIGATION 213
in some publication, such as an invitation to a dinner or something
like that, and it was based on the theory of guilt by association.
Miss Kenyon. Yes.
Senator (tkeex. Because that is tlie only purpose it seems to me it
could have, and he quoted the Secretary of State as referring to that
as one of the criteria which might be used in determining an applicant
or an employee's loyalty, although the Secretary of State used that
only as one of a number
Miss Kenyox. a number of criteria?
Senator Green. Yes ; that the thought should be applied.
I think it would be just as well, or I would be glad, at any rate, to
liear your views on this theory of guilt by association. It always
seemed to me as though that was one of the fundamental differences
between the totalitarian and the democratic form of government.
Senator Hickexlooper. Mr. Chairman, so long as the Senator has
predicated his question on his assumption of what I said, may I clear
it up?
Senator Greex. I will be glad to have you do so.
Senator Hickexlooper. I did not say the Secretary of State had
set these up as criteria of loyalty. I used the term ''security risk."
There is a vast difference between security risk and either proof of
or allegation of disloyalty. There is a vast difference between them.
A bad security risk may be loyal intentionally.
Senator Green. I am glad the Senator understands the difference,
because the resolution under which we are. acting specifies disloyalty
and not security risk, so I assumed that those who are charged in these
hearings and before this committee were being charged with dis-
loyalty. It seems to me it is a logical conclusion.
However, about this theory of guilt by association, I know you must
have very definite ideas, and I will be glad to hear them.
Miss Kexyox'. Thank you, Senator. I want to be very brief.
Of course, guilt hy association alone seems to me a violation of due
process, whicli is in our Constitution as one of the civil liberties which
I have fought for. The associations themselves, the organizations
themselves — and I hold no brief for any of these; I am prepared to
believe they are all devilish — nevertheless they themselves have never
been found subversive by a court of law or by any process other than
an administrative edict; and administrative edicts or fiats or what-
ever you call them sound to me like Mr. Hitler and Mr. Stalin; there-
fore, I think that the terming of an organization subversive is in itself
a violation of civil liberty.
And then from that to jump to the fact that a person who is a spon-
sor or a member or participates in one tiny little project for a short
])eriod of time is therefore tarred with the same brush and is there-
fore himself or herself subversive seems to me a non-sequitur. Very
frequently it just is not true.
Therefore it seems to me that due process is violated, and maybe it
js a bill of attainder and maybe it is an ex post facto law. I am pre-
pared to say that it is completely contradictory to the democratic
process.
Senator Green. I thought that was your view, and I am glad to hear
you state it so clearly.
Miss Kexyox. I hope vou read the New York Times editorial on
"The Right To Join."
214 STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVESTIGATION
><pn.ifor Green I did not. Perhaps this will be a good siibstitute
^efesjS one other question: You were furnished with a good
m.nv lis s on which appeared disreputable people as well as people
of he Idlhe t repute. I have before me a docmnent relatnig to you
whic^ cont^^ins people I do not think any of whom are disreputable,
all of the highest repute.
Miss Kenyon. Oh, Senator, thank you. „ .^ .^ i • n ^
Senatoi Green. And I think it would be well if it appeared m the
record now It is headed "For release upon completimi of testimony
by Judge Dorothy Kenyon before Subcommittee of Senate Foreign
Relations Committee, March 14, 1950.
I don^t know whether von care to read it and place it m the lecmci.
You are the only witness here; I suppose, unless you are overcome by
"m^^SycS'^S^^i-. vou embarrass me. Might my counsel read
it foi- me ^ If I know what it is, I would prefer not to read it myself.
Senator Tydings. Counsel will read the document.
Mr KiENDL. The document reads as follows :
The" following is a statement made public t.>day by New YorK Attorney C. C.
"^SiT:^ ::^ZS'^^^^^o^^eZ senator McCarthy, of Wis-
"^'^ ;^ bif teSumony before'tbe -^committee of tl^ Senate C^mnnt^e o
consm,
"t a public natuie. She lias attained a tigli ieimta(ii.n t<Ji bei abilitj aiitt bei
'â– ":\V'l'!rie,fr, ir'w'^SlSge'iS'sbe l,a, never bad tbe sligbtes, .y^^
states No citizen of New York is a more loyal American.
That is signed by : Ernest Angell C. C. ^^m;lingbam John W D^^^^^^^
T Invd Garrison Edward S. Greenbaum, ^lcholas Kelley, William H.
D^l^^il NeXld Morris, Robert Moses. Robert P. Patterson, A. J. G.
Priest, Whitney North Seymor, and Ordway lead.
Senator Green. Thank you.
Miss Kenyon. Thank you very much. Senator.
Senator Tydings. Senator McMahon ?
Senator McMahon. No questions.
Senator TvmNGS. Miss Kenyon, we are very much obliged to you
for coming down here and testifying. We will try and not call you
hack unless you get in the headlines again.
Miss Kenyon. Unless I get in hot water. ^„ fL^f
Senator TvmNos. I would like to announce before we^adjourn that
I would like to have an executive committee meeting of the subcom-
mittee in room G-23 in the Capitol tomorrow morning at 10 :.^0
o'clock I hope all members will be present. It is important that they
•ill l)e there promptly so we can dispatch some pending business.
(Whereupon, at 5 : 15 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene