548 STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVESTIGATION"
Mr. BuDENz. I have not. . . • j i 4.
Senator Hickenlgoper. Is there any question m your mmd but
what they are Communists?
Mr. BuDENz. No. it - a
Senator Hickenlgoper. You get that from Publicity and— - ^
Mr. BuDENz. We were compelled to read all of Mr. Molotov s
Senator Hickenlgoper. You get that from publicity and assur-
ances from within the party that they are reliable Communists; is
Mr. BuDENz. That is correct. , -. ^i
Senator Hickenlgoper. So I take it, it goes with a number of others
who are publicly accepted as Communists, that many of those you have
not seen personally, nor have had them admit to you personally that
thev are Communists, but you know they are, and accept them as such
because of the party knowledge that they are Commuiusts?
Mr Budenz. If you will permit me. Senator— that is correct; but
if you will permit me, in order to give why I was so eloquent on that
other matter, I will show you this document. , ^ .t i -^ • •
This is totally divorced from this hearing, but 1 think it is im-
portant. This is a picture of Joseph Stalin, the only picture ever
permitted on the front page of the official tbeoretical organ of the so-
called American party, Communist Party of the United States No
other picture has ever been permitted on that front page, but that
of their leader, Joseph Stalin. . i i i fi.^f
That is one indication of the complete control he has over that
organization. I wanted to explain why I went over, there, and gave
a rather oratorical dissertation. ^- -^ ^ ;^
Senator Hickenlgoper. After this first year's activity of yours m
the party, did you move on to other positions m the party, m the
next 10 years? ^^, ,.^ <• ^i c 4.
Mr BuDENZ. Yes. In November 1937 I became editor of tlie first
daily labor paper launched by the Communists; it was the Chicago
Daily Record. That was supposedly a people's front thing, but i
was editor and it was completely dominated and financed by the
Communists. As a matter of fact, in part it was financed by the
secret conspiratorial bund under Robert William Weiner, who came
into this country for conspiratorial purposes. The thing is after the
Middle West Daily Record folded up because of the Hitler-Stalm
pact, I came back to New York, but already it had been decided that
I be made managing editor of the Daily AVorker, and president o±
the corporation conducting that publication.
Comrade Browder, he was "C^omrade" Browder then, stated to me :
"The reason you are being appointed to this is because you have no
technical difficulties. You have not violated any passports, or have
any crimes against the United States on you, so you can defend the
Daily Worker better during this period." , • u 4.
I said "I hope the reason is because I also know something about
the newspaper business?" u x.
He said that was true, but the main reason is because you have no
technical difficulties." ^ i t^ -, ^xr i
I state that to illustrate why I was made editor of the Daily Worker.
Senator Hickenlgoper. Can you move on rapidly through the re-
maining years up to 1945, and outline your movements in the party i
STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVESTIGATION 549
Mr. BuDEXz. I was a member of the national committee for 9 years,
■6 of them openly and 3 secretly, for political purposes; and then I
was a member of various organizations — I have recounted that be-
fore — until October 1945, when I left the party.
Senator Hiokexlooper. Now, then, during that period, ^Slr. Budenz,
when did you first meet Mr. Foster and Mr. Bridges and Mr. Fields
I mean when did you first come in contact with those men that you
have referred to as being in these groups that met periodically?
ISIr. BuDEXz. Mr. William Z. Foster ?
Senator HicKEXLoorER. Yes.
Mr. BuDEXz. I have known him many years. In fact, I met him —
he came to see me in New York on his way to Moscow to become a
Conununist, and, veiy frankly, I said one thing — I said, "One thing
you sliould do. Bill, is never become a Communist." That is when he
was passing through, so I knew him since the time he made the trip
to Moscow and became a Comnumist over there in Moscow.
Senator Hickexlooper. I am not so concerned about the early days,
as the i)eriod of 10 years during whicli you were
Mr. Budex'z. I knew Mr. Foster all the time.
Senator Hickex'looper. Perhaps I can clear this
Mr. Budex'z. I don't understand your question.
Senator Hickexlooper. What I am trying to get at is this : After
you joined the party and began to move into the circles of the party
where decisions were discussed and programs were discussed for the
party, at what point did you begin to have association with Mr. Foster
and Mr. Bridges and Mr. Field ? I am ti-ying to get. frankly, trying
to get the continuity of their association with you during the time
that you were an important person in the party.
Mr. BuDEXZ. Mr. Foster I got to know immediately. Mr. Bridges
I got to know in 1936. I then knew him as Comrade Rossig, a mem-
ber of the national committee of the Communists.
Senator Hickex'looper. And Mr. Field ?
Mr. BuDExz. Mr Field I also — well, I think the fii-st time I met
him was in 1937, although I had heard of him.
Senator Hickex'looper. These others you have mentioned, when
was the first-time you began to associate together in the programs of
the Communist Party in this country? That is, I am trying to find
out just when you began this rather intimate association with these
men. and how long it continued, up until 1945.
Mr. BuDEX'z. I don't know what men you refer to.
Senator Hickexlooper. The men you referred to, such as Mr. Foster
and Mr. Field and Bridges, and the chief man, whose name I forget.
Mr. BuDExz. Eisler?
Senator Hickexlooper. No — Stachel.
Mr. Budexz. Oh! Stachel. I knew, right away — I knew him as
soon as I joined the party, and he just came back from Moscow from
the seventh congress, and I knew him immediately and associated
very closely with him. He is really the main man within the Com-
munist Party, so far as constant attention in America is concerned.
Of course, in addition, there is also a Communist International repre-
sentative, who, when I was there, was Gerhart Eisler, under the name
Senator Hickexlooper. During this period from 1935 to 1945,
while you were in the party and while you were associated with these
550 STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVESTIGATION
men, and on the repeated occasions wliere they have talked over party
policy with yon, and party programs, and where they bronght reports,
for instance, of party activities here and in other parts of the world,
was there ever any occasion during that 10-year period when any of
those men, to your knowledge, ever falsified or lied about the party
programs, or individuals connected with the party, if it aifected the
Communist Party ? .
Mr BuDENz. Never. This is like a secret police system. It you ever
did that, just like the NKVD holds them up, I say, the NKVD holds
them up, because that is what they are reported to have over there in
Russia, they put one person to spving on another, and if they would
lie, ever, you would be held up ; in fact, there is a special committee
which watches your statements in every discussion to see if you have
any false statements therein, or any misrepresentations of the line.
Communist to Communist, because that is their basic morality, there
he must be truthful, there you must be upright, in a Communist sense,
you must be willing to sacrifice, or he must be willing to sacrifice
himself, die, or anything for the Communist cause.
When it comes to the people outside of the Communist cause, m
other camps, then Lenin tells us very frankly, "You must, as a matter
of Communist morality, when necessary, lie, perjure, and do other
Senator Hickenlooper. Let me ask von— during this period of 10
years, did you have occasions to be able to test, from time to time, the
truth in what those men reported, as Communists, to the high com-
mand of the Communist Party here? In other words, did you have
a chance to test their veracity, so far as it was concerned, m their
reports? , ^ . ..,
Mr. BuDENz. Repeatedly. I don't know that I can give you illus-
trations right now. I could give you illustrations if I had the time
to think it over. .
Senator Hickenlooper. Then, it leads me to this question, Mr.
Budenz : Your conclusions, and vour statements, and your testimony
today— are they based upon the unbroken line of experience that you
had with these men in their statements, so far as communism is con-
cerned, and does that experience lead you to rely upon the words you
got within the conspiracy ? i xi •
Mr. Btjdenz. That is correct. Just like m an army, the truth is
within themselves, so far as the facts are concerned. It is a part of
their artillery, amongst themselves. You are given these instruc-
tions, so that you will act the way they want you to act, and it must
be based on correct information, otherwise the whole army will sutler
for it. • f -o 1 J
Senator Hickenlooper. Let me now ask you this, Mr. Budenz, and
I want to confine this to the period while you were a member of the
party, and not later than October 1945, and it has something to do—
and 'l would not ask the question, had not some similar questions
been asked just a moment ago— I feel that this is a fragmentary
bit of information, but if an official Soviet publication, published m
Russia, praises and approves, or did— I am confining this to not later
than October 1045, and durins the period when you were a Commu-
, list— if an official Russian publication praises and approves the writ-
ing and analyses of certain situations involvino; Russia, would you
say that that' approval and that praise was with the full knowledge
STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVESTIGATION 551
Riul consent of the Enssian Government, tiilkinf!: about an official
Russian publication, that is, an oflicial newspaper or magazine?
Mr. BuDENz. Well, of course, I have never been in Soviet Russia.
1 can only state that fi-om the fact that 1 know the Russian Govern-
ment runs the Communist Party here as though it were a secret police
system, therefore there cannot be, in Soviet Russia, more freedom than
you have here. I mean to say, it must be intensified, they have police
power, and it is known that all the press are Government organs
Senator Hickenlooper. I think I shall not pursue that at the
moment, Mr. B'udenz, because that was one of the documents I have
been unable to locate this afternoon, that I wanted to show you here;
but I perhaps can discover it a little later. It has been mislaid some
place for the time being.
Now, I think you were asked a while ago the question about what you
had told the FBI. I take it from your answer that you have told, or
given ansAvers to the best of your ability to the FBI in all matters,
and to all questions which the FBI has asl^ed you.
Mr. BuDENz. Yes, sir. So much so that in the case this morning,
3 even put in a long-distance call to the FBI to tell them about some-
thing I had forgotten to tell them. Frankly, I think the Federal
Bureau of Investigation is one of the finest agencies of the American
(rovernment. I say that in all good faith, not because I am dealing
Avith the FBI, but because as a Communist and as a non-Communist I
h.ave observed the FBI. and in my opinion they are the finest, and I
therefore have sought to give them every bit of information I can.
I tell the FBI everything I possibly can think of to tell them, except
that, naturally, you understand. Senator, I have to do something else; I
have 14 hours a week of teaching, which means preparation; I have
other things I have to do, and therefore I have to take that into con-
sideration, but wherever I can, and particularly where a trial is up,
or some emergency, I have cast aside all other 'business, always, and
given to the FBI as.much of my undivided attention as I could.
Senator Hickexlooper. Xow, as a result of your membership in the
party, and your discussions within the party high command, in con-
nection with Mr. Lattimore, can you give us your estimate of his value
to the Communist Party, especially with reg'ard to the trends in Asia,
as you knew them, as a Conununist?
Mr. BuDExz. AYell, it seem to me that I should leave that in the
hands of the Senators, after I have told them the truth as I know it. I
think my own interi)retation would merely seem to be an attempt to
furnish the Senators more than I know. "^ I have told my story
Senator Hickenlooper. Then, let me ask you
Mr. BiDExz (continuing). So far as I know it. I think it can be
corrborated. I know it can. That is all I can do.
Senator Hickexlooper. Let me ask you this question: Wliile you
were a Communist, and during these years, and in connection with\he
discussions of Mr. Lattimore. was ]\l'r. Lattimore considered by those
that you discussed him with, as a valued agent, or a valued adjunct to
the Communist cause, especially in Asia?
Mv. BuDEXz. Yes, sir, he was. There are specific statements in that
respect by :Mr. Stachel. in that respect, and Mr. Browder, to that
68»70— 50 — i)t. 1 36
552 STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVESTIGATION
Senator Hickenlooper. I believe you testified in your statemeiit,
or otherwise, that Mr. Lattimore was referred, in conmumications-
rpf erred to under the svmbol "L' ' or "XL" ?
Mr BuDENZ. That was a practice in regard to anyone under party
'^S;!r itrx^SS.'Sf i'- to refer to then, in communica-
^X:^!:j^r^ybody who was^in puWic life, cnjt of ^^^
also had a dash. We had to guess that, or go and get it Ihere was
not not even a letter in regard to a person who was, for instance,
a pei"c.i tliTt would be app^-oached in public life because, after all
the Con m m Lts can approach a person and that does not mean hat
personTa Communist/but the thing is, the Communists had ano her
kSn mind and that was not to disclose who was operating secretly
Therefore, all people who were non-Communists, so far-there was
a dTsh fvTr them, and you had to learn, yourself, who it was, but you
got it frmn the substance of the discussion, that generally gave you
'""semtorHKlKEKLOOPER. During the time you were a Communist,
and UP to the time you left in 1945, did you ever have any serious or
su^tantM reason to doubt that Mr. Lattimore was being used
knowindv by the Communist Party? j^„uf
mT Budenz. Well, I have told the picture here. I have no doubt.
Nothino- came to my attention beyond what I have said.
Senator Hickekloopee. How do yon know-or do you know of
..nv occasion when any reports were made to the effect that Dr. Lat-
; mo?e was the conduit through which information might have on
o(^asTonTbeen transmitted from Moscow to the party m this country,
or to members of the high command ? , . , -^ , . a rr...
Mr Budenz. Only in the situation to which I have referi^d That
is he one in 1943. I know, much more definitely, that Mr Field
and Mr JaSe are Soviet espionage agents, and I want to establish
?hat very firmly, because that is the beginning, m my opinion, of an
investlo-ation tliat would be of great value. , ^ i v fi.«
sSator Hickenlooper. Now, I think you also stated it was the
CommunLt Party line, while you were a member ot the party-that
ChhiTTas probablv the vital spot for conquest as an eventual attack
aoain^t the United 'States, or American imperialism f
'^Mr Budenz. That is correct. China was the mam-I will be able
to show you, I regret I didn't bring some of those documents here
ocHv but diina, ^throughout the Soviet history, has been one of ts
main CO ideratimis. A^Red China was one of the mam objectives
xTd instructions to the American party, which eveii Browder-it
Pven led h m to change its name-that we must win he acquiescence
irimer^^^^^^^^^ Red China and a Red Poland. That was dinned
into us over and over and over again, the importance of C una, its
iTeat reservoir of manpower was terrific, and you will be able to see
frniu documents in the Communist International magazine, in the
Int™? rJp^^^^^ correspondence, which is the official reportoria
ITZmoi the Communist International aiid m many other official
Communist statements, the importance of China.
As a matter of fact, so much is this the case that m the official greet-
ings-lXn't want to take up too much of your tinie but this is some.
Mncr that comes out of your question-in the official greetings to the
STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVESTIGATION 553
Seventli Congress, the Coniiniuiist Interiiatioiial, the China Commu-
nist Party irot the phice of lionor, and what is done in tlie face of
;ill this propaganchi that they were an agrarian reform group — they
say this: their whole hope is in the man of unlimited wisdom, un-
parallel courage, undying love and devotion to the working class, our
leader and teacher, the great Stalin.
In othei- words, they give their oath of allegiance to Stalin, and
that opens up the Seventh Congress of the International in Moscow
in 1035. That was done designedly, as the Communists always do,
to indicate the importance of the conquest of China.
Senator Hickenlooper. Then, Mr. Budenz, would you say that the
eiforts in China, on the part of the Communists — would you say they
were of the highest priority in this world-conquest program, at least
during the period while you were a Communist ?
Mr. Budenz. They have always been of the highest priority, and
they became much more so after World War II. They became of
the highest priority when Russia opened up World War No. Ill
against the United States in 1945, because that is what is happening
right now. Stalin has said, "AVars are not declared today, they are
made,'* and he is waging a two-front war against us, and in that,
China was a big prize, it was the biggest prize, along with Poland — •
Poland and its coal, and China and its millions.
Senator Hickenlooper. Would you say that with the importance
of China in the Communist program being as great as it is, that the
Communists would assign their most able men to their activities in
connection with this Chinese revolution, and the whole China situa-
Mr. Budenz. They would, and they did.
For instance, they assigned Gerhart Eisler here, and he was an
expert on China, and he is one of the shrewdest members of the Com-
munist International, and is now organizing attacks upon us in Ger-
Senator Hickenlooper. And then, one of the following results —
after the either capture or consolidation of China by the Communist
Party, an eventual target is the United States, is it not?
Mr. Budenz. That is the target.
Senator Hickenlooper. That comes along in the pattern, step by
Mr. Budenz. That is the target. All of this other is just merely
attaching the United States. That is exactly what we were instructed,
and what I stated when I left the party in 1945, that a creeping blitz-
kreig is being organized again in Europe and Asia to hurl those two
continents against the United States.
As a matter of fact. I refer again to this agreement in 1934, that that
is not the only conclusive evidence that we have of their intention to
drive the United States out of the Philippines, Hawaii, and out of
Senator Hickenlooper. Do you know, in connection with our activi-
ties with the Communist high connnand, Mr. Budenz, whether or not
Mr. Lattimore was assigned to, or cooperated in. Communist organ-
izational activities on the west coast of the United States at any time?
Mr. Budenz. Well, that is where he was located during part of his
time to which I have referred.
554 STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY INVESTIGATION
Senator Hickenlooper. And were those activities directed lai^ely
toward the orientation of articles in the Institute of Pacific Relations,
or one of its subsidiaries? , j-j-^„ ^4=
Mr BuDENZ Well, for a number of years he was the editor of
Pacific Affairs' one of 'its papers, and during that time he Communists
we?e ve7y generously presented as authors in that publication.
Senator Hickenlooper. Now I want to ask you
Mr. BuDENZ. That is, in generous numbers. ,,.,•_ _„ ^his
Senator Hickenlooper. Just to clarify my own thinking on tins
matter The Communist apparatus, as I understand from your testi-
now is generally divided-that is, so far as its personnel is con-
cer ed-into two ^classes. One is the Communist who could be i-e-
ferred to more or less publicly as a Communist; it doesn't make oo
much difference if they are publicly known as Comnmm^^^^^
other is the Communist supporter and aider and abettor who may be
in a pos ion where his identity with the Communist Party must be
SnceS and^any information of that must be avoided if possible.
^"m^ BuDENz' Well, I think I can best answer that by giving an
illustraS of a tree because that would tell all the categories of
communism. The rJots are underground which really rule the
paZ^thS would be Peters, Eisler, men of that character; Peters
the man who sent Whittaker Chambers down here to steal papers out
of the St^te Department, director of espionage for many years; Eisler
scores of enemy aliens in this country at the moment, who have been
here for .a number of years, have been here mstructmg the native
^^Xnte'runk of the tree The trunk is the open Party and^^^^^^
the men and women in the branches are the concealed Communists.
The'ap of instruction goes from the roots tV•-g^o'^t^e"^tb c^S
Dartv to the men and women m the branches. On the public stage
tC^are not Communists. Therefore you do have several categories
of Communists. You have the illegal aliens m here T^l^. f ^.^«;^, ^
bv Moscow and who really direct the party. That is the Kremlin
policy And an American may be in charge in the Phihppmes and in
Chiiia • he cannot be in charge in America, although he is concealed.
H oes not appear on the puElic stage Then you have the open Com-
munist, such as I was, such as Browder was, in order that the party
will appear to be a political party, which it is not.
Thirdly, you have the people who are walking across the public
stage as not^ Communists but who are Communists.. However they
allfall three of these groups, are all in this one conspiracy together
Does that answer your question, or did you want a different
^1ena?or- Hickenlooper. I think vou have ^^1^^-^^ .^V^J^^^^ Jj^
more detail than I was really asking for. I am glad to gf /*' ^™^^
I was trying to bring out is that there are persons of undoubted loy
altv to the Communfst cause whose name, are not earned on any of-
ficial roll of the Communist Party membership, or ^ ho are not so
ca led ?ard-carrying Coinmunists,'literally, but who render yeoman
service to the Communist Party with their identity secret and even
every attempt made to conceal a direct association.
STATE DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE LOYALTY LNVESTIGATIOX 555
Mr. BuDEXz. There are liuiulreds of examples of that, and I will
give you one personal illustration, the case of Dr. Norman Bethune,
tlie Canadian pliysician who died in China witli the Chinese Reds.
That is an appropriate illustration.
Dr. Bethune was known widely as a non-Communist. He was very
indiirnant whenever anyone proclaimed him to be a Communist, yet
when he died Earl Browder arose in a public meeting and said, "When
Dr. I>et]unie left for China the last request he made, because he was
going iuto a war area, was, when he died, if he did die, it should be an-
nounced that he was of the army of Stalin." There is one illustra-
tion. I could give you manj^ others.
Then there is Mr. Frederick Vanderbilt Field, who denied for a
long time that he was a Communist, yet now very openly rejoices in
the defeat of American imperialism in the Pacific, and as a Com-
munist writing in this official theoretical organ which is for the leaders
of the Connnunist Party, not for the rank and file. Therefore there
are those persons, and I could tell you many, who, after being secretly
Commrnist — well, in New Y(n-k we had the case of Dr. Bella Dodd,
wlio after many years' denying she was a Communist then came out
in the teachers' union, suddenly, as a Communist. There are others
of that type.
Seiuitor HicKExr.ooPER. Now may T ask you this question. Out of
your experience as a Communist, who does the most effective work for
the furtherance, the general furtherance, of the Communist cause, the
knoAvn Communist or the secret Communist who denies his member-