United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on Indi.

Direct funding through block grants : hearing before the Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate, One Hundred Fourth Congress, first session ... April 5, 1995, Washington, DC online

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S. Hrg. 104-131

DIRECT FUNDING THROUGH BLOCK GRANTS



/ 4, IN 2/11; S. HRG, 104-131

)irect Funding Through Dlock Grants...

HEARING

BEFORE THE

' COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED FOURTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

OVERSIGHT HEARING ON PROVIDING DIRECT FUNDING THROUGH
BLOCK GRANTS TO TRIBES TO ADMINISTER WELFARE AND OTHER
SOCIAL SERVICE PROGRAMS



APRIL 5, 1995
WASHINGTON, DC




OCT 1



U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
90-277 CC WASIilNGTON : 1995

For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office
Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Wa.shington, DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-047588-0



S. Hrg. 104-131

DIRECT FUNDING THROUGH BLOCK GRANTS



Y 4. IN 2/11: S, HRG. 104-131

Direct Funding Through Block Grants...

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE

ONE HUNDRED FOURTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

OVERSIGHT HEARING ON PROVIDING DIRECT FUNDING THROUGH
BLOCK GRANTS TO TRIBES TO ADMINISTER WELFARE AND OTHER
SOCIAL SERVICE PROGRAMS



APRIL 5, 1995
WASHINGTON, DC




OCTt



9 B



U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASfflNGTON : 1995



For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office
Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington. DC 20402
ISBN 0-16-047588-0



COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

JOHN McCain, Arizona, Chairman
DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii, Vice Chairman
FRANK MURKOWSKI, Alaska KENT CONRAD, North Dakota

SLADE GORTON, Washington HARRY REID, Nevada

PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico PAUL SIMON, Illinois

NANCY LANDON KASSEBAUM, Kansas DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii

DON NICKLES, Oklahoma PAUL WELLSTONE, Minnesota

BEN NIGHTHORSE CAMPBELL, Colorado BYRON L. DORGAN, North Dakota
CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming
ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah

Steven J.W. HEELEY Majority Staff Director /Chief Counsel
Patricia M. ZELL, Minority Staff Director /Chief Counsel

(II)



CONTENTS



Page

Statements:

Atcitty, Thomas, Vice President, Navajo Nation, Window Rock, AZ 20

Bane, Mary Jo, Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and

Families, Department of Health and Human Services 3

Boyd, Merle, Second Chief, Sac and Fox Nation, Stroud, OK 34

Early, Harry D., Chairman, All Indian Pueblo Council 24

Florhaug, Richard, Conunissioner, Beltrami County, Bemidji, MN 18

Grob, George, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Evaluation and Inspections,
Office of the Inspector General, Department of Health and Human

Services 10

Inouye, Hon. Daniel K., U.S. Senator from Hawaii, vice chairman, Com-
mittee on Indian Affairs 2

McCain, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from Arizona, chairman. Committee

on Indian Affairs 1

Mercier, Mark, Chairman, Confederated Tribe of the Grand Ronde Tribal

CouncU, Grand Ronde, OR 30

Murkowski, Hon. Frank H., U.S. Senator from Alaska 17

Nadeau, Ida, United Tribes' Director of Employment and Training 33

Rebar, Joan, Chairwoman, Sac and Fox Nation of Missouri in Nebraska

and Kansas 32

Salazar, Hon. Nick, State Representative from New Mexico 26

Simon, Hon. Paul, U.S. Senator from Illinois 7

Thunder, Margaret, Director, Family and Children Services 14

Whitefeather, Bobby, Chairman, Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians 14

WeUstone, Hon. Paul, U.S. Senator from Minnesota 14

Appendix

Prepared statements:

Antone, Martin, President, Inter Tribal Council of Arizona 66

Atcitty, Thomas 48

Bane, Mary Jo 39

Between Lodges, Wilbur, President, Oglala Sioux Tribe 69

Boyd, Merle (on behalf of Elmer Manatowa, Principal Chief) 63

Deschampe, Norman, President, Minnesota Chippewa Tribe 71

De Weaver, Washington Representative, Indian and Native American Em-
ployment and Training Coalition 73

Earlv, Harry D 57

Flornaug, Richard 46

Gaiashkibos, President, National Congress of American Indians (with

resolutions) 101

Grob, (Jeorge (with attachments) 109

Halbritter, Ray, Nation Representative, Oneida Indian Nation 91

James, Evelyn, Tribal President, San Ju£m Southern Paiute Tribe, Ari-
zona , 81

Johnson, Scott A., Muscogee Nation 195

Joseph, James Lawrence, Chairman, Sauk-Sauiattle Indian Tribe 75

Kirk, Brenda K., Deputy Director, Programs Operation and Management,

Health Division of Cherokee Nation 77

Manatowa, Elmer, Principal Chief, Sac and Fox Nation 63

Mankiller, Wilma, Principal Chief, Cherokee Nation 77

Maulson, Tom, Chairman, Lac du Flambeau Band of Lake Superior Chip-
pewa Indians 78

Mercier, Mark 59

Nadeau, Ida 193

(III)



IV

Page
Prepared statements — Continued

National Indian Child Welfare Association 202

Nomee, Clara Whitehip, Chairperson, Crow Nation, Montana 80

Palmanteer, Jr., Eddie, Chairman, Colville business Council, Colville

Confederated Tribes 87

Pemberton, Alfred R., Chairman, Leech Lake Tribal Council 215

Rebar, Joan 61

Salazar, Hon. Nick, State Representative from New Mexico 57

Shields, Caleb, Chairman, Assiniboine and Sioux Tribes, Fort Peck Res-
ervation (with supplemental) 218

Taylor, Jonathan L., Principal Chief, Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians .. 81
Thomas, Edward K., Presiaent, Central Council of the Tlingit and Haida

Indian Tribes of Alaska 83

Trope, Jack F., Counsel, Association on American Indian Affairs, Inc 84

Whitefeather, Bobby (with attachments) 42

Wellstone, Hon. Paul, U.S. Senator from Minnesota 39

Additional material submitted for the record:

Alaska Native Coalition on Employment and Training (concerns) 222

Charles, Frances C, Chairwoman, Lower Elwha SlOallam Tribe 244

Gomez, Maria, Commissioner, Department of Human Services, Minnesota

(letter) 224

Kindle, Willie, President, Rosebud Sioux Tribe (letter) 225

Milham, Al, Tribal Chairman, Forest County Potawatomi Community

(letter) 228

Ross, Doug, Department of Labor (letter) 88

Sanchez, Lorenda T., Executive Director, California Indian Manpower

Consortium, Inc. (letter) 89

Suetopka-Duerre, Ramona, Employment Services Department Director,

Cook Inlet Tribal Council, Inc. (letter) 230

Seyler, Warren, Chairman, Spokane Tribe of Indians (position Paper

and questions with responses) 234



OVERSIGHT HEARmG ON PROVIDEVG DIRECT
FUNDING THROUGH BLOCK GRANTS TO
TRIBES TO ADMINISTER WELFARE AND
OTHER SOCIAL SERVICE PROGRAMS



WEDNESDAY, APRIL 5, 1995



U.S. Senate,
Committee on Indian Affairs,

Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:32 a.m. in room 485,
Senate Russell Building, Hon. John McCain (chairman of the com-
mittee) presiding.

Present: Senators McCain, Murkowski, Inouye, Simon, and
Wellstone.

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN McCAIN, U.S. SENATOR FROM
ARIZONA, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

The Chairman. I want to thank all of the witnesses for appear-
ing before the committee, in particular those of you who have trav-
eled great distances to be here. I know that you have done so be-
cause welfare reform will significantly impact the lives of tribal
members in your States and your parts of the coimtry.

I do not have to restate the statistics that reveal that American
Indians and Alaska Natives are disproportionately represented as
welfare recipients compared to other populations in the United
States. You are all too familiar with this data. It is imperative,
however, that this information be provided to other members of
Congress.

Since the 104th Congress began, the committee has heard the
concerns of Indian tribes and Alaska Natives that the unique needs
of Indians will be ignored during the welfare reform debate. Unfor-
tunately, Indian concerns were not part of the debate in the House
because an amendment offered by Congressmen Don Young and
Bill Richardson that included provisions for Indian tribal govern-
ments was rejected by the Rules Committee. Fortunately, we do
not have that kind of procedure in the U.S. Senate, which is one
reason why Senator Inouye and I both left the House. [Laughter.]

However, I was pleased to learn that the Senate Finance Com-
mittee recently invited testimony from Indian tribes in its welfare
reform hearings at the request of its chairman. Senator Packwood.

I have publicly stated on several occasions that I believe that
welfare reform has the potential for offering a rare opportunity for
Indian tribes. The primary reason that the Congress is undertaking

(1)



welfare reform and promoting block grants is to enhance local gov-
ernment control over these programs. Our rationale is similar to
the Federal Indian policies that I and Senator Inouye and other
members of this committee have continuously promoted for Indian
tribal governments. To date, however, the discussion on who should
administer block grants has been limited to the States.

I understand the desire of Indian tribes to advance the govem-
ment-to-government relationship and Indian self-determination by
accessing direct funding from the Federal Grovernment, and I have
made a commitment to do all that I can to assist tribal govern-
ments in this effort. To move toward this goal, the committee must
obtain information on the feasibility of providing direct Federal
funding to Indian tribes, and the ability of Indian tribes to admin-
ister local welfare assistance programs or to use Federal funds to
contract for State or county services.

We will examine existing Federal programs which provide both
direct and indirect funding to tribes. It is also necessary to obtain
information on the successes and the obstacles experienced by
tribes that currently administer welfare assistance programs.

Finally, I'm sure that you all understand that it is extremely im-
portant that the committee address many concerns that will likely
develop in the debate on welfare reform, such as: how can Congress
provide flexible tribal administrative authority and still hold tribes
accountable for basic financial management and program imple-
mentation; how can Congress encourage tribal and State courts to
cooperatively enforce child support orders to offset State and tribal
cash assistance programs; and how can we establish clearly defined
service populations, so that States and tribes avoid duplicative
services, and more importantly, ensure that individuals in need re-
ceive assistance.

As you can see, due to the interest in this issue, we have a longer
witness list than usual. Therefore, in order that we can accommo-
date all of the witnesses and that there is ample time for questions
and answers, I would ask that each witness summarize their testi-
mony. Be assured that I have read the testimony of all the wit-
nesses and it will be made a part of the record.

Senator Inouye is here this morning, our distinguished vice
chairman. Unfortunately, he will have to leave, because he must
attend to the Defense Appropriations Supplemental that we all
hope is in its final throes, although that may be a bit premature.
I know you must leave us. Senator Inouye, but we're grateful that
you could come by this morning, and we know that you have some
views on this issue and we appreciate your participation and un-
derstand why you have to leave.

STATEMENT OF HON. DANIEL K. INOUYE, U.S. SENATOR FROM
HAWAII, VICE CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

Senator Inouye. I thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I
wish to commend you for scheduling this hearing this morning. Be-
cause welfare reform may very well be the most important initia-
tive on the agenda of Congress. Sweeping reform measures are the
subject of much debate and much controversy. And our mission
here is to assure that the sovereign status of tribal governments
and the important role that Indian governments have played in the



administration and the delivery system of Federal programs has a
recognized place in any new system.

Given the high rates of unemployment in many communities
across Indian Country, as you have noted, and the consistent condi-
tions of poverty, we must also assure that native people are not
barred from access to those programs which provide basic suste-
nance to Indian children and their families because there are no
jobs in their reservation communities, and thus no means of secur-
ing employment.

Mr. Chairman, as you have noted, we have a full witness list this
morning, so I will not consume further time. But as you have indi-
cated, I would like to apologize to one and all that I will not be able
to stay for the bulk of this hearing, because in a few minutes, the
conference committee will convene, hopefully, to resolve the matter
of the supplemental appropriations.

But I wish to thank one and all of you for taking the time to pre-
pare testimony for this morning's hearing and to share your views
with the committee. I can assure you that I will read all of your
statements most carefully.

Thank you very much.

The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Inouye.

I have a note here from Senator Kassebaum, that says.

Due to a conflict with the hearings of the Labor Committee, I cannot be at this
morning's hearing of the Indian Ailairs Committee to welcome and introduce two
Kansas witnesses, Joan Rebar, Chairman of the Sac and Fox of Missouri, and Ida
Nadeau, Director of the United Tribes JTPA program. I will be meeting with them
later today. I look forward to reviewing the testimony and to working with you, the
members of the committee and the Kansas tribes in fashioning meaningful and eq-
uitable welfare reform.

Our first witnesses are Mary Jo Bane, who is the Assistant Sec-
retary for the Administration for Children and Families, of the De-
partment of Health and Human Services; and George Grob, who is
the Deputy Inspector General, Office of the Inspector General, De-
partment of Health and Human Services. Welcome, both of you.
Please proceed with your testimony.

STATEMENT OF MARY JO BANE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, AD-
MINISTRATION FOR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES, DEPART-
MENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

Ms. Bane. Mr. Chairman, Senator Inoiwe, it's my pleasure to
come before you today to discuss Federal funding to Indian tribal
governments for welfare and social service programs that fall with-
in the Administration for Children and Families.

As the Assistant Secretary for Children and Families, I'm respon-
sible for administering over 60 programs that promote the eco-
nomic and social well-being of families, children, individuals and
communities. What I'd like to do today is summarize my testimony
and briefly describe how Indian tribes receive funding under many
of our programs, and then talk some about the current welfare re-
form proposals that are before the Congress.

There is a strong administration commitment to address the crit-
ical issues that confront tribes in Native American communities, as
well as to help them achieve their social, economic and governance
objectives. President Clinton demonstrated his personal commit-
ment when he met with Indian leaders from around the country to



outline the principles that executive departments and agencies are
to follow in their relationships with tribal governments. As stated
by the President,

The United States Grovemment has a unique legal relationship with Native Amer-
ican tribal governments as set forth in the Constitution of the United States, trea-
ties, statutes and court decisions.

Our philosophy within the Administration for Children and Fam-
ilies is to respect the right of self-determination and self-govern-
ance of all tribes and Native American communities and organiza-
tions. Within this context, our goal is to provide assistance to Na-
tive American communities so that they can become self-sufficient.
Among the numerous programs administered by ACF, tribes re-
ceive funding directly in some cases, and in other cases, funding or
services are provided through the States and localities.

I'm pleased that we were able to submit to this committee last
month our phase I report on the provision of services to Native
Americans by programs within ACF. The report provides abstracts
and some good information on the services that we provide.

We encourage each of our programs to address Native American
needs by looking beyond categorical boundaries and by merging
funds wherever permitted in the statute. Merging funds creates a
concentration of resources to better address local problems with a
more comprehensive initiative. The Administration for Native
Americans has successfully merged funds from agencies within as
well as outside the Department. For example, within the Depart-
ment, several operating divisions are working together to help re-
duce the incidence of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and infant mortality
among certain tribes.

In addition to focusing on funding mechanisms for tribes, our job
in the Federal Government is to support tribal governments in pro-
viding a comprehensive and responsive array of services to meet
children and family needs. We've worked over the last 2 years to
strengthen our ability to provide this support. For example, we
held our national tribal child care conference, the first one ever, in
response to requests from our tribal customers for a chance to
share ideas and experience. The second conference will be held this
summer.

In addition, with support from this committee, we've moved
ahead to ensure that American Indian Head Start is a flagship
component of our national Head Start program, exemplifying the
emphasis on quality, comprehensive services for young children
and their families.

I'd now like to speak about the impact of welfare reform on fund-
ing to tribes. First, I would like to reiterate this administration's
strong support for enactment of real and effective welfare reform
that promotes the basic values of work and responsibility. Last
year, the President proposed a sweeping welfare reform package
that embodies these values. It would have established tough work
requirements while providing opportunities for education, job train-
ing and child care to working people; imposed tough child support
enforcement measures; required teen mothers to live at home, stay
in school and identify their child's father; increase State flexibility
and accountability; and maintained protections for children.



The administration's reform package reflected its commitment to
tribal governments and its recognition of the unique needs of tribal
communities. For example, our welfare reform proposal provided
new opportunities for tribal governments to participate in the jobs
program, it strengthened the funding of the tribal JOBS program,
it authorized tribes to expend JOBS funds on economic develop-
ment activities, it provided special flexibility for tribes in admin-
istering the provisions of time-limited benefits and related work ac-
tivities, and it gave tribal governments access to title IV-A child
care funds to support self-sufficiency efforts. These provisions and
the other provisions in the administration's bill recognized not just
the principle of tribal sovereignty and tribal right to self-govern-
ance, but also the unique economic circumstances faced by Native
American communities.

The block grant approach, as envisioned in the Personal Respon-
sibility Act that was passed last month in the House, falls far short
of the basic goals and values that most Americans want welfare re-
form to promote. Unfortunately, the bill is too weak on moving peo-
ple from welfare to work, and too tough on children. The House bill
relies on the States to solve the problems of requiring work and
protecting children. It would completely scrap the shared State,
Federal and tribal partnership. It would cut funding, eliminate the
State match, and block grant most programs.

This would create a system in which opportunities and respon-
sibilities could vary dramatically from one State to another, where
children might be protected in some States but not in others, where
accountability for the money the taxpayers pay into the Federal
Treasury rests almost entirely with the States, tinder this system,
it's difficult to predict how tribal members would fare.

Not only would the bill that was passed by the House block grant
most programs to the States, but it would remove current tribal
funding set-asides for ACF programs, with the exception of the
child care and development block grant. Current statutory tribal
set-asides for programs such as JOBS and for family preservation
and family support would be eliminated. Therefore, even in situa-
tions where tribes currently receive direct funding, services under
the block grants would be provided by the States using their block
grant funds.

In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, I look forward to working with this
committee to build upon our support of Native American self-gov-
ernance, economic development and self-sufficiency. We will work
closely with Native American leaders as we proceed with phase II
of our report to this committee on the development of a plan, in-
cluding legislative recommendations, to allow tribes and other Na-
tive American organizations and communities to consolidate the
grants administered by our department. In addition, as ACF pro-
grams come before the Congress, we will examine with you the ap-
propriateness of incorporating provisions to allow direct funding for
tribes. I'd be happy to answer any questions at this point.

[Prepared statement of Ms. Bane appears in appendix.]

The Chairman. Thank you very much. Secretary Bane.

You mention in your testimony some of the successes that some
tribal governments that receive direct funding from the Adminis-
tration for Child and Families have had. Do you support the con-



cept of block grants tx) Indian tribes or tribal consortia to enable
them to administer their own programs?

Ms. Bane, Mr. Chairman, as I said, the administration has seri-
ous concerns about the block grant approach, especially to those
programs that are currently individual entitlements, including cash
assistance, foster care, adoption assistance, and child care to sup-
port work.

Our administration's welfare reform proposal, as I noted, did pro-
vide for direct funding to the tribes to run JOBS programs, to run
work programs and to provide child care. We think that's very im-
portant and very appropriate, and we hope to work with the Senate
as it considers welfare reform to develop a real proposal that pro-
tects everyone's interests, including those of the tribes.

The Chairman. So I take it your answer is some ways yes, and
some ways no? Is that correct?

Ms. Bane. I think that's correct. As I say, we have serious con-
cerns about the block grant approach generally.

The Chairman. The Inspector General reports that Indian chil-
dren are in substitute care at a rate that is 3V2 times the national
average. However, out of all the funds that HHS administers for
child welfare, relatively few dollars are actually reaching Indian
tribes. Do you have a proposal to ensure that Indian tribes receive
their appropriate share of funds to provide services to this growing
segment of our population?

Ms. Bane. I think the suggestions that the Inspector General
made in her report on ways that we could work more effectively be-
tween the tribes and the States are very good. We are looking at
those suggestions very closely and want to make sure that funds
are available.

The other thing I think we need to look at closely is the pro-
grams that are administered by the Bureau of Indian Affairs,
which to some extent serve the same purposes. We also need to
work very closely with them to make sure that the programs are
coordinated so that we can best serve Indian children.

The Chairman. But you haven't taken any specific steps yet to
implement those options?

Ms. Bane. We are working with the States trying to make sure
that they understand the requirements of the Indian Child Welfare
Act and the special needs of Indian children. So we've been work-
ing with the States in order to bring these about.

The Chairman. Are you by chance familiar with the legislation
that I have proposed that would propose a 3-percent set-aside for
tribes to administer social services block grants?

Ms. Bane. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. What's your view of that?

Ms. Bane. Mr. Chairman, the administration doesn't have an of-
ficial position. There's no question that the social services needs of
tribes are very great. I think that one of the striking findings of
the report by my colleague was the small extent to which States
are moving money through to the tribes. Again, I think again,
there are several options short of legislation, which would help us
ensure programs work better between the States and the tribes.

We need better coordination between our programs and those of
the Bureau of Indian Affairs [BIA]. I think the tough thing about



Online LibraryUnited States. Congress. Senate. Committee on IndiDirect funding through block grants : hearing before the Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate, One Hundred Fourth Congress, first session ... April 5, 1995, Washington, DC → online text (page 1 of 30)