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Investigation of improper activities in the labor or management field. Hearings before the Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Management Field (Volume pt. 2) online

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■POSITORY

INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD



HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

SELECT COMMITTEE

ON IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE

LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD

EIGHTY-FIFTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION
PURSUANT TO SENATE RESOLUTION 74, 85TH CONGRESS



MARCH 5, 6, 7, AND 8, 1957



PART 2



Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Improper Activities in the
Labor or Management Field




INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD



HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

SELECT COMMITTEE

ON IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE

LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD

EIGHTY-FIFTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION
PURSUANT TO SENATE RESOLUTION 74, 85TH CONGRESS



MARCH 5, 6, 7, AND 8, 195^



PART 2



Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Improper Activities in the
Labor or Management Field




UNITED STATES

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 1957



Boston Public Library
Superintendent of Document*

MAY 3 -1957



SELECT COMMITTEE ON IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR OR
MANAGEMENT FIELD

JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas, Chairman
IRVING M. IVES, New York, Vice Chairman
JOHN F. KENNEDY, Massachusetts JOSEPH R. MCCARTHY, Wisconsin

SAM J. ERVIN, Jr., North Carolina KARL E. MUNDT, South Dakota

PAT McNAMARA, Michigan BARRY GOLDWATER, Arizona

Robert F. Kennedy, Chief Counsel
Ruth Young Watt, Chief Clerk
n



CONTENTS



Area: Portland, Oreg.; Seattle and Spokane, Wash.

Page

Appendix 743

Testimony of —

Amundson, Lowell E 587

Bennett, Clifford O 56G, 568

Calabrese, Alphonse F _• - 462

Crosby, Clyde C 673

Daniels, Frank 590

Elkins, James B 435, 463, 530, 554, 557

Goodall, James L 568

Hardy, Helen E 467

Jenkins, James Q 719, 740

Jenkins, Virginia 571, 630

O'Connell, William 457

Maloney, Tom 727

McLaughlin, Joseph P 732

Plotkin, Leo 517

Schrunk, Terry Doyle 595, 633

Stone, Laura 578

Tiedeman, Merlin L 581

Vance, John W 576

Zusman, Nathan 473,481,629

EXHIBITS Introduced Appears

on page on page

35. Undated agreement between Tom Johnson, Joe McLaughlin,

and Jim Elkins to divide options purchased for exposition-
recreation center, Portland, Oreg 449 (*)

36. List of options secured on land within proposed site of

exposition-recreation center 452 (*)

37. Application for airline ticket No. 888-02283 between Portland

and San Francisco for J. McLaughlin signed by William

O'Connell 459 743

38A. Registration card and bill from Olympic Hotel for Joseph

McLaughlin pertaining to presence on May 16, 1955 463 744-745

38B. Registration card and bill from Olympic Hotel, San Fran-
cisco, for Clyde Crosby dated May 16, 1955 463 746-747

38C. Clift Hotel, San Francisco, bills for Frank Brewster and

John Sweeney, May 14 through 17, 1955 463 748-750

38D. United Airlines round-trip ticket for Clyde Crosby and

Joseph McLaughlin between Portland and San | Francisco. 463 751-752

39. Statement of income for 1955 from Mutual Investment of

J. P. McLaughlin and J. B. Elkins 539 753

40. Letter from J. B. Elkins to J. P. McLaughlin enclosing

cashier's check for $668 payable to J. P. McLaughlin per-
taining to exposition-recreation center deal 555 754-755

41. Picture of the 8212 Club, North Denver Street, Portland,

Oreg 575 (*)

42. Chart representing Denver Avenue and Kilpatrick Street,

Portland, and directions 586 (*)

43. Picture of Denver Avenue and Kilpatrick Street showing

location of the 8212 Club 586 (*)

44. Photograph showing pole and fountain and 8212 Club 586 (*)

Proceedings of —

March 5, 1957 435

March 6, 1957 481

March 7, 1957 557

March 8, 1957 629

*May be found in the files of the select committee.

in



INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE
LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD



TUESDAY, MARCH 5, 1957

United States Senate,
Select Committee on Improper Activities

in the Labor or Management Field,

Washington, D. C.

The select committee met at 2: 10 p. m., pursuant to Senate Resolu-
tion 74, agreed to January 30, 1957, in the caucus room of the Senate
Office Building, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the select
committee) presiding.

Present : Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas ; Senator
Sam J. Ervin, Jr., Democrat, North Carolina; Senator Pat McNa-
mara, Democrat, Michigan; Senator Joseph R. McCarthy, Republi-
can, Wisconsin; Senator Karl E. Mundt, Republican, South Dakota;
Senator Barry Goldwater, Republican, Arizona.

Also present: Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel to the select com-
mittee ; Jerome Acllerman, assistant counsel ; Alphonse F. Calabrese,
investigator ; Ruth Young Watt, chief clerk.

(The hearing resumed at 2: 10 p. m., Senator John L. McClellan,
chairman, presiding.)

The Chairman. The committee will be in order.

(Present at the convening of the hearing were Senators McClellan
and Goldwater.)

The Chairman. We will resume hearings from our adjournment
last Friday. The Chair would make the observation that some Sena-
tors are not able to be here on time at the appointed hour of 2 o'clock
to resume because of a record vote in the Senate. I anticipate other
members of the committee will be here soon and so we may proceed.

Mr. Counsel, will you call the first witness %

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Jim Elkins.

The Chairman. Will you come forward, Mr. Elkins ?

TESTIMONY OF JAMES B. ELKINS— Resumed

The Chairman. Mr. Elkins, Friday afternoon we had some testi-
mony from Mr. Howard Morgan who is a public official in the State
of Oregon, and he gave us some information regarding the attempt of
the teamsters to take over the liquor commission.

In the course of your connections with the teamsters union at the
end of 1954 through 1955, did you have any conversations with any
officials of the teamsters union regarding the liquor commission 2

Mr. Elkins. Yes, sir.

435



436 [MPROPEE ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

Mr. Kennedy. What was the firsl incidenl thai occurred regarding
the liquor commission or any members of the liquor commission ?

Air. Elkins. Thee missionhad fired two members of the commis-
sion for accepting gratuities, I believe they pul it.

Mr. Kennedy. Ami was one of them an acquaintance of yours by
the name f Mi-. Sheridan ?

Mi-. Elkins. lie got to be an acquaintance as soon as he gol Curd.

Mr. Kennedy. Then he came to see you t talk aboul this problem?

Mr. Elkins. Thai is correct,

Mr. Kennedy. Did you bring him down to see Mr. Clyde Crosby!

Mr. Elkins. I did.

Mr. Kennedy. A.1 that lime was Mr. Clyde Crosby international
representative of die teamsters?

Mr. Elkins. Thai is eon-eel .

Mr. Kennedy. In the Portland area?

Mr. Elkins. Thai is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. Whal did Mr. Crosby say to you at dial lime, as to
what could be done for Mr. Sheridan?

Mr. Elkins. He told me thai through their political influence they
thoughl i hey could save it.

Mr. Kennedy. Did he lake any steps a I that time!

Mr. Elkins. Yes, he did.

Mr. Kennedy, would you relate thai to the committee!

Mr. Elkins. I told him I didn't think that they were big enough
because 1 ii came oul of (lie capitol.

Mr. Kennedy. You said you did not feel Unit they had enough influ-
ence because (bis step, getting rid of Mr. Sheridan, had come out of
the capitol?

Mr. ELKINS. That is correct, lie said, "I'll find out if we have."
lie called Seattle, Mr. John Sweeney, and Mr. Sweeney said, "We
mighl just as well find oul now if we have boughl a pig in a poke or
i f he will perform for US."

Mr. Kennedy. "He" being this high State official!

Mr. Elkins. 3Tes ; the hignest, yes.

Mr. Kennedy. The highest in the State? You are talking about
the former governor; is thai correct?

Mr. Mi, kins. That is correel and I don't like to say any thing about
him because he is dead.

Mr. Kennedy. Bui al thai lime, the teamsters bad backed him: is
thai right!

Mr. Elkins. In the election ; yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. According to whal Mr. Morgan related hereon Fri-
day, the teamsters had backed Governor Patterson while all of Ike
other labor organizations bad backed his opponent, and then had also
backed Mr. Langley while all other labor had backed Mr. Langley's
opponent .

M r. ELKINS. I am not familiar with what the rest of labor had done,
but I know thai the (eamslers had backed Mr. Patterson ; yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. Now, whal did John Sweeney say to Mr. Crosby as

Mi-. Crosby related il toyou.

MY. Elkins. "We would just as well find oul if we have boughl a
pig in a poke or i f he will perform for us."

Mr. Kiwi i>\ . Whal slepsdid Mr. Crosby lake?



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 437

Mr. Elkins. He told me to bring Tom Sheridan over al T p. m. thai
evening.

Mr. Kennedy. Did hemeet with Mr. Sheridan?

Mr. Elkins. Ilr did and I brought him over to Crosby's private
office.

Mr. Kennedy. They had a conference at that time?

Mr. Elkins. They did.

Mr. Kennedy. And were arrangements made ;il thai time about
meet ing with Hie ( J-overnor?

Mr. Elkins. Not for Sheridan to meel him but for Mr. Crosby to
meet him.

Mr.KENNEDY. Didhemeel him?

Mr. Elkins. He did.

Mr. Kennedy. Could you relate that incident?

Mr. Elkins. Well, Mr. Crosby called me at my place of business and
told me that he bad an appointment for 5 o'clock that afternoon and
that is the following afternoon with the Governor. About, 7:30 he
called me al my home and related that be bad gotten the job done,
thai is the way he expressed it, that Mr. Sheridan would be reinstated
but he would have to go through a civi] service board hearing.

Mr. Kennedy. So be went through a civil service study which was
also arranged ; is I bat right?

Mr. Elkins. Well, they claimed they arranged it and I don't know.

Mr. Kennedy. Bu1 Mr. Sheridan stayed on in bis position?

Mr. Elkins. That is right. He just, lost a montb/s pay, that's all.

Mr. Kennedy. Was he the subject of an investigation at a later
date, a year later? Would that be in L955.

Mr . Elkins. 1 * ) 5 5 ; y es.

Mr. Kennedy. And again there was another investigation of the
liquor commission ?

Air. Elkins. Air. Thornton, the attorney general, had raised such a
hue and cry about the liquor commission that the Governor hired two
Portland attorneys to make that invest igation. One of t hem had for-
merly been an FBI agent. When they finished the investigation, Mr.
Thornton wanted the results of t his investigation.

The Governor wouldn't give it to him, so finally, after a squabble,
he turned the invest igal ion over to Mr. Langley.

Mr. Kennedy. The Governor turned the investigation over to Mr.
Langley?

Mr. Elkins. That is right.

Mi-. Kennedy. Did Mr. Langley and the Governor have a meeting
on this ^

Mi'. Elkins. They did.

Mr. Kennedy. Did you witness it \

Mr. Elkins. 1 did.

Mr. Kennedy. Where did t he meetingtake place \

Mi-. Elkins. About 20 feet down from the entrance of my office.

(At, this point in t he proceedings, Senator Mundt entered the hearing
room. )

Mr. ELKINS. Pardon me, t here is a TV Station on the corner from my
office and so it had nothing to do with me that I saw the meeting and
they appeared at that, spot .

Mr.KENNEDY. Thevsat in a car and talked?

Mr. Elkins. That is right.



438 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

Mr. Kennedy. Now, was it agreed, according to what was related
to you, that this was going to be a whitewash of the investigation?

Mr. Elkins. That is what Mr. Maloney told me that evening.

Mr. Kennedy. Tom Maloney told you ?

Mr. Elkins. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. Now, there was some evidence against Mr. Sheridan,
and there was a witness, was there not, that could testify against him?

Mr. Elkins. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. That witness was up in the State of Washington,
outside the jurisdiction of the State of Oregon ?

Mr. Elkins. That is right. He was in Washington.

Mr. Kennedy. Were instructions given that that witness should
hide and not appear ?

Mr. Elkins. It was ; that is right.

Mr. Kennedy. Were some of those instructions related through
you?

Mr. Elkins. They were ; yes. The first man they gave the instruc-
tions to didn't do it and he didn't want to mix in it and then Mr.
Maloney went up from Portland to Seattle and talked to someone
and instructed them to have the man go hunting and told him that
then Mr. Langley would issue the subpena and he wouldn't be available.

Mr. Kennedy. They wanted the witness to go hunting and then
Mr. Langley would issue the subpena and they would not be able to
find him ?

Mr. Elkins. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have conversations with Tom Maloney about
the fact that this was going to be a whitewash ?

Mr. Elkins. Yes, sir ; many times.

Mr. Kennedy. Did you assist in that — making it a whitewash ?

Mr. Elkins. Well, yes ; I did.

Mr. Kennedy. Were there also conversations held up in the apart-
ment of Mr. Maloney ?

Mr. Elkins. There were.

Mr. Kennedy. About this ?

Mr. Elkins. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. Were there conversations between Mr. Langley, the
district attorney, and Mr. Sheridan, who was under investigation?

Mr. Elkins. There were : yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. Now, at that time, was the tape-recording machine
that you had taking down these conversations ?

Mr. Elkins. It was.

Mr. Kennedy. So you have a good number of those conversations
on tape ?

Mr. Elkins. That is right.

Mr. Kennedy. Some of those conversations are between the dis-
trict attorney and Mr. Sheridan who was under investigation?

Mr. Elkins. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. Were there also conversations dealing with the fact
that this was going to be whitewashed ?

Mr. Elkins. There were.

Mr. Kennedy. And what the district attorney would do if an indict-
ment was returned by the grand jury ?

Mr. Elkins. Well, Mr. Maloney said they were returned and I don't
believe they were, but he told Mr. Crosby and also told me that there



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 439

had been 1 returned, or 2 returned, and that Mr. Langley had stuck
them in his pocket.

Mr. Kennedy. Did he go on to say, "That shows how much guts
that boy has"?

Mr. Elkins. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. Was the grand jury ultimately dismissed with noth-
ing coming out of it?

Mr. Elkins. They were.

Mr. Kennedy. Nothing came of it ?

Mr. Elkins. There was nothing came of it.

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I have finished with this section of
my interrogation.

The Chairman. Do you want the witness to suspend ?

Mr. Kennedy. I have another matter that I want to go into with
him, but I am finished as far as the liquor commission is concerned.
I wanted to know if you had any questions.

The Chairman. I didn't understand who this conversation was with
in the car there parked near your office.

Mr. Elkins. The Governor and Mr. Langley. Mr. Maloney told
me that the Governor, the understanding was that the Governor appre-
ciated that fact and that they had that meeting. He didn't know
that it was so close to my office that I had seen them sitting in the car
talking.

The Chairman. In other words, you are not testifying just from
hearsay. You actually saw them in the car together ?

Mr. Elkins. That is correct. I didn't hear what they said.

The Chairman. You didn't hear the conversation ?

Mr. Elkins. No.

The Chairman. But you know the meeting was held.

Mr. Elkins. But they sat there for 45 minutes, or something like
that, talking.

The Chairman. Are there any questions ?

Senator Goldwater. Did you get tape recordings of that
conversation ?

Mr. Elkins. Of the Governor ? No, sir. That was in a car, Senator.

Senator Goldwater. Which were the tape recordings you referred
to?

Mr. Elkins. Of Mr. Sheridan and Mr. Langley in the apartment,
where they met and discussed this matter.

The Chairman. You may proceed to the next matter.

Mr. Kennedy. I would like to point out, Mr. Chairman, that this
fits into the testimony that Mr. Morgan gave on Friday, regarding this
investigation by the grand jury which was conducted by Mr. Langley
and the fact that because of the relationship between the Governor
and Mr. Langley, it was to be a whitewash and Mr. Elkins, according
to his own testimony, played an active part in that.

The Chairman. All right.

Mr. Kennedy. I now want to discuss a different subject with you.
That is regarding the education and recreational center that was being
built or was going to be built by the city of Portland. That was an
$8-million project, was it not ?

Mr. Elkins. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. An exposition and recreation hall; that was an
$8-million project?



440 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

Mr. Elkins. That is right.

Mr. Kennedy. There was a five-man board appointed by the mayor
to select a site where that structure was going to be built ; is that right ?

Mr. Elkins. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. Now, Mr. Clyde Crosby, the international repre-
sentative of the teamsters in Portland, was appointed as 1 of the 5
members of that commission.

Mr. Elkins. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. Did he ever discuss that commission with you or
discuss the property that was going to be selected by that commission ?

Mr. Elkins. Yes ; he did.

Mr. Kennedy. That was in early January of 1955 ?

Mr. Elkins. To the best I can remember, yes.

Mr. Kennedy. What did he say to you in that conversation ?

Mr. Elkins. Well, he called my home and left word for me to call
him ; it was important. I called him in the evening, and he told me
that it was very important that he talk to me the next day.

I said, "Well, how about lunch?" and he said, "'Fine; but come ahead
of time, because I am going to discuss something with you." I went
over about 10 : 30.

Mr. Kennedy. Could you speak up, Mr. Elkins ?

Mr. Elkins. I went over to Mr. Crosby's office about 10 : 30 in the
morning, and when I walked in his office I sat down, and he had a
big map on his desk, and he asked me if I knew what that was. I
said, "No; I am not familiar with maps, particularly of that type
of map."

He said, "Well, you know I am on that recreation — $8-million E. K.
center." I said, "Yes ; I do" ; and I said, "That doesn't mean anything
to me. What are you trying to tell me" ? "Well," he said, "I can put
it in one particular area if you tie up some of that property."

I said, "Well, you will have to explain it a little more thoroughly,
Mr. Crosbv," which he did. He said there was some institute, that
the city had spent $30,000, or, he said, "We have spent $30,000."

Mr. Kennedy. Is that Stanford University ?

Mr. Elkins. Yes ; Stanford University Research, yes ; and they had
studied the different locations in Portland, and he explained that to
me. They spent $30,000 on that research. That was one of the
choicest locations in Portland, and they eliminated several others.

I said, "It sounds interesting. Can we go to lunch and drive me
around there if you want me to buy this property?" We got in Mr.
Crosby's car and we drove around. We passed to Hazalow on the
south and Williams on the east and Broadway on the north. I believe
it was Larabee or the river, anyway, on the north.

(At this point in the proceedings Senator McCarthy entered the
hearing room.)

Mr. Kennedy. So you had a meeting with him, and he said that he
thought he could select a place that was going to be chosen, and you
said, "Well, let us drive around and see it."

Mr. Elkins. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. And see the grounds and the land, and so you took
this drive, and what did you ultimately decide that you would do?
Did he want you to purchase the property outright ?

Mr. Elkins. That is right.



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES EST THE LABOR FIELD 441

Mr. Kennedy. Did you object to that?

Mr. Elkins. Yes ; I said it would take too much money, and I didn't
have that kind of money. I said, "How about options?" Of course,
that was a little later on. He said, "That's fine." So we took the
options.

Mr. Kennedy. You agreed you would take the options on the place ?

Mr. Elkins. That's right.

Mr. Kennedy. Now, after you met with him, did you go ahead and
start to get options on that land ?

Mr. Elkins. We did ; yes.

Mr. Kennedy. Who is "we"?

Mr. Elkins. I did and Tom Johnson.

.Mr. Kennedy. Who was he?

Mr. Elkins. A colored man that owns the Keystone Kealty Co.

Mr. Kennedy. Was this a colored section of town ?

Mr. Elkins. That was ; yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. Why did you bring him in on it at all, and why
didn't you just get the options yourself ?

Mr. Elkins. Tom Johnson owned a lot of real estate in that area
previous to that, and Mr. Johnson had had a division of property
with a former partner, and we thought him getting these options it
would not create any comment.

(At this point in the proceedings Senator Mundt left the room.)

Mr. Kennedy. Tom Johnson was a friend of yours, is that right?

Mr. Elkins. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. And he already owned some property in this section
of town I

Mr. Elkins. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. And you felt that if you came in and started pur-
chasing this property as a white person and started getting all of these
options there would be some comment about it,

Mr. Elkins. Yes ; conversation about it.

Mr. Kennedy. And so you operated through Mr. Tom Johnson ?

Mr. Elkins. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. Did he go ahead and try to get some of these options ?

Mr. Elkins. He did.

Mr. Kennedy. Did he get the options ?

Mr. Elkins. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. During this period of time did you ask Mr. Crosby
how long he would have to get the options for ?

Mr. Elkins. I did.

Mr. Kennedy. How long did he say ?

Mr. Elkins. He said first, "It won't be made public, if you can
get options for 2 months and I think it will come out publicly in
2 months that it will be in this area."

Mr. Kennedy. Did you get them for that length of time?

Mr. Elkins. Well, most of them we got for 4 months or 6 months
or better.

Mr. Kennedy. Did you keep Mr. Crosby advised as to what you
were doing (

Mr. Elkins. I did; yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. What conversations did he have with you during
this period of time ? Did he say it was going along well or what did
he say ?



442 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

Mr. Elkins. Well, first lie did. He said it was going along a little
slower than he had anticipated, and that he had opposition, other
people wanted the auditorium site, and some of them were still insist-
ing on the Delta Park area, although that was definitely out.

He felt that sooner or later he would swing it to this particular site.

Mr. Kennedy. Was there another group that was trying to get
options in the same area ?

Mr. Elkins. Yes.

Mr. Kennedy. Did they approach Mr. Johnson, too?

Mr. Elkins. They did, and they approached him to do the same
thing that we were doing.

Mr. Kennedy. What group was that?

Mr. Elkins. Well, the Commonwealth, I believe.

Mr. Kennedy. Commonwealth?

Mr. Elkins. I believe so, yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. What is that ?

Mr. Elkins. That is the realty firm owned by the bank, I believe,
or a big corporation. It is one of the largest real estate groups in
Portland.

Mr. Kennedy. Did Mr. Crosby discuss with you about getting any
money at the time ?

Mr. Elkins. That is right, and I told him that I would split what-
ever I got 50-50 with him, and I told Mr. Crosby whatever I received
I would split 50-50 with him.

When this group propositioned Tom Johnson, Tom Johnson brought
the propostion back to me and I took it to Clyde Crosby and he said,
"Well, you're cutting it up pretty small if you let another group in."

I was suggesting that if they put up the money and returned our
money, we should let them have it and us just accept the 25 percent
of the net profit from it.

Mr. Kennedy. Did he agree to that ?

Mr. Elkins. He finally did, but we never went any further with
the deal.

Mr. Kennedy. You never made the deal with Commonwealth ?

Mr. Elkins. No.

Mr. Kennedy. Did you go ahead and get these options and what
was the next event that occurred ?

Mr. Elkins. Well we got between three and four hundred thousand
dollars worth of options.

Senator McCarthy. Could you speak a little louder, please?

Mr. Elkins. We picked up between three and four hundred thou-
sand dollars' worth of options in that area. Then, we went along un-
til May and there hadn't been any action taken on it. In May, I
believe, I met Mr. Crosby on 20th Street and Division Street. We
got in his car and drove across an intersection of 21st Street.

Mr. Kennedy. Had he called you and said he wanted to meet you
there?

Mr. Elkins. That is right, and we talked on the phone 2 or 3
times on this. That was in the meantime, so we got in a squabble over