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NOTES AND QUERIES, MAY 29, 1852 ***




Produced by Charlene Taylor, Jonathan Ingram, Keith Edkins
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{505} NOTES AND QUERIES:

A MEDIUM OF INTER-COMMUNICATION FOR LITERARY MEN, ARTISTS, ANTIQUARIES,
GENEALOGISTS, ETC.

"When found, make a note of." - CAPTAIN CUTTLE.

* * * * *


Vol. V. - No. 135.]
SATURDAY, MAY 29. 1852
[Price Fourpence. Stamped Edition 5d.

* * * * *


CONTENTS.

NOTES: - Page

Journal of the Expenses of John, King of France, in
England, 1359-60 505

Way of indicating Time in Music 507

Minor Notes: - A smart Saying of Baxter - Latin Hexameters
on the Bible - Ancient Connexion of Cornwall and
Phoenicia - Portrait of John Rogers, the Proto-Martyr -
"Brallaghan, or the Deipnosophists" - Stilts used by
the Irish 507

QUERIES: -

Etymology of the Word "Devil," by Richard F. Littledale 508

Forged Papal Seal 508

A Passage in "All's Well that ends Well," by
J. Payne Collier 509

Surnames, by Mark Antony Lower 509

Minor Queries: - Owen, Bishop of St. Asaph - St. Wilfrid's
Needle in Yorkshire - Governor of St. Christopher in
1662 - The Amber Witch - Coffins for General Use - The
Surname Bywater - Robert Forbes - Gold Chair found in
Jersey - Alternation in Oxford Edition of the Bible -
When did Sir Gilbert Gerrard die? - Market Crosses -
Spy Wednesday - Passemer's "Antiquities of Devonshire" -
Will o' Wisp - Mother of Richard Fitzjohn - Quotations
Wanted - Sons of the Conqueror: William Rufus and Walter
Tyrell - Brass of Lady Gore 510

MINOR QUERIES ANSWERED: - Smyth's MSS. relating to
Gloucestershire - Origin of Terms in Change-ringing -
Keseph's Bible - Proclamations to prohibit the Use of
Coal, as Fuel, in London 512

REPLIES: -

Addison and his Hymns, by J. H. Markland 513

Witchcraft: Mrs. Hickes and her Daughter, by James Crossley 514

Dodo Queries, by J. M. van Maanen 515

The Heavy Shove 515

Ground Ice, by William Bates 516

Character of Algernon Sydney, by S. Walton 516

Monument to the Memory of Mary Queen of Scots at Antwerp 517

Lord King; the Sclaters; Dr. Kellet, &c. 518

Birthplace of St. Patrick 520

Replies to Minor Queries: - Cabal - Portrait of Charles
Mordaunt, Earl of Peterborough - The Word "Oasis" -
Frightened out of his Seven Senses - Eagles' Feathers -
Arms of Thompson - Spick and Span-new - Junius Rumours -
Cuddy, the Ass - The Authorship of the Epigram upon the
Letter "H" - John Rogers, Protomartyr, &c. - "Gee-ho" -
Twises - Ancient Timber Town-halls - Johnny Crapaud - Juba
Issham - Optical Phenomenon - Bishop of London's House -
"Inveni Portum" - "Cane Decane" - Fides Carbonarii - The
Book of Jasher - Sites of Buildings mysteriously
changed - Wyned - Sweet Willy O 520

MISCELLANEOUS: -

Notes on Books, &c. 524

Books and Odd Volumes wanted 525

Notices to Correspondents 525

Advertisements 526

* * * * *

Notes.

JOURNAL OF THE EXPENSES OF JOHN, KING OF FRANCE, IN ENGLAND, 1359-60.

Possibly some of the readers of "N. & Q." may remember that King John II.
of France was taken prisoner by Edward the Black Prince at the battle of
Poitiers, fought September 20, 1356. If not, I would refer them to the
delightful pages of old Froissart, where, in the version of Lord Berners,
they will see chronicled at length, -

"How Kyng John of Fraunce was taken prisoner at the Batayle of
Poyeters; how the Englyshmen wan greatly thereat, and how the Prince
conveyed the Frenche Kyng fro Burdeaux into Englande."

I am induced to bring under the notice of your readers a curious roll,
containing one year's expenditure (July 1, 1359, to July 8, 1360) incurred
by the French king during his captivity in England. This important document
has been very recently printed in the _Comptes de l'Argenterie_, and edited
from a MS. in the Bibliothèque Nationale by M. Douët d'Arcq for the
_Société de l'Histoire de France_. It may perhaps be well to state, that
after the battle of Poitiers the heroic Prince Edward conducted his royal
prisoner to Bordeaux, where he remained till the end of April, 1357. On the
24th of May following they both made their entry into London, "the Frenche
Kynge mounted on a large whyte courser well aparelled, and the Prince on a
lytell blacke hobbey (_haquenée_) by hym." John was lodged at first at the
Savoy Palace, but was removed shortly afterwards to Windsor Castle, at
which place he was allowed to "go a huntynge and a haukynge at hys
pleasure, and the lorde Phylyp his son with him." The document in question
refers to the years 1359 and 1360, when the king was confined at Hertford
Castle, at Somerton Castle in Lincolnshire, and lastly in the Tower of
London. As this document, which is so intimately connected with a favourite
portion of our history, has, I believe, received no notice from any English
journal, and as it moreover affords many valuable illustrations of domestic
manners, and of the personal character of the royal captive, I have made a
few extracts from it for insertion in "N. & Q.," in the {506} hope that
they may prove interesting to the numerous readers of that useful and
entertaining work.

"_Pigeons._ - A 'varlet Anglois' presents the king with '2 paire de
pijons blans,' and receives in reward 1 noble, value 6s. 8d.

_A dainty dish of Venison and Whale._ - Pour le marinier qui admena par
mer, à Londres, venoisons et balainne pour le Roy, 4 escuz.

_A present of Venison from Queen Philippa._ - Un varlet de la royne
d'Angleterre qui asporta au Roy venoison que elle li envoioit, pour
don, 13s. 4d.

_The Baker's Bill._ - Jehan le boulenger, qui servi de pain à Londres le
Roy, par 2 mois ou environ, 5s. 2d.

_Sugar._ - 32 livres de sucre, à 10d. ob. livre=33s. 4d. _N. B._ The
grocer's bills for spiceries 'confitures et sucreries' are very
numerous.

_Honey._ - Miel, 3 galons et demi, 16d. le galon=4s. 8d.

_The King's Breviary._ - Climent, Clerk of the Chapel, is paid 6d. for a
'chemise au Bréviaire du Roy.'

_Do. Missal._ - Jassin, pour cendal à doubler la couverture du Messal du
Roy, et pour doubler et broder ycelle avecques la soie qui y convenoit,
13s. 5d.=Li, pour 2 clos d'argent à mettre audit livre, 4d.

_Do. Psalter._ - Jehan, le libraire de Lincole [Lincoln], pour 1 petit
Sautier acheté pour le Roy, 6s. 8d.

_Romances._ - Tassin, pour 1 _Romans de Renart_ [a burlesque poem, by
Perrot de Saint Cloot or Saint-Cloud?] acheté par li, à Lincole, pour
le Roy, 4s. 4d. - Maistre Guillaume Racine, pour un _Romans de Loherenc
Garin_ [a metrical romance, by Jehan de Flagy] acheté par li pour le
Roy, et de son comandement, 6s. 8d. - Li, pour 1 autre Romans du
_Tournoiement d'Antecrist_ [a poem, by Huon de Méry], 10s.[1]

_Parchment._ - Wile, le parcheminier de Lincoln, pour une douzainne de
parchemin, 3s.

_Paper and Ink._ - 5 quaiers de papier, 3s. 4d. Pour encre, 4d.

_Sealing Wax._ - Une livre de cire vermeille, 10d.

_Chess-board._ - Jehan Perrot, qui apporta au Roy, 1 instrument appellé
l'eschequier, qu'il avoit fait, le Roy d'Angleterre avoit donné au Roy,
et li envoioit par ledit Jean, pour don à li fait, 20 nobles=6l. 13s.
4d.

_Organs._ - Maistre Jehan, l'organier, pour appareiller les orgues du
Roy: - Pour 1 homme qui souffla par 3 jours, 18d., &c. Pour tout, 58s.

_Harp._ - Le roy des menestereulx, pour une harpe achetée du
commandement du Roy, 13s. 4d.

_Clock._ - Le roy des menestereulx, sur la façon de l'auloge (horloge)
qu'il fait pour le Roy, 17 nobles, valent 113s. 4d.

_Leather Bottles._ - Pour 2 boteilles de cuir achetées à Londres pour
Monseigneur Philippe, 9s. 8d.

_Knives._ - Pour 1 paire de coustiaux pour le Roy, 2s.

_Gloves._ - Pour fourrer 2 paires de gans, 12d.

_Shoes._ - Pour 12 paires de solers (souliers) pour le Roy, 7s.

_Carpenter's Bill for windows of King's Prison in the Tower._ - Denys le
Lombart, de Londres, charpentier, pour la façon de 4 fenestres pour la
chambre du Roy en la Tour de Londres. C'est assavoir: pour le bois des
4 châssis, 3s. 2d. Item, pour cloux, 2s. 2d. Item, pour une peau de
cuir, 5d. Item, pour 6 livres et demie de terbentine, 4s. 4d. Item,
pour oile, 3d. Item, pour 7 aunes et demie de toile, 9s. 4d. Item, pour
toute la façon de dictes fenestres, 10s. Pour tout, 29s. 8d.

_Saddle._ - Godefroy le sellier, pour une selle dorée pour le Roy,
estoffé de sengles et de tout le hernois, 4l.

_Minstrels._ - Le Roy des menestreulx pour don fait à li par le Roy pour
quérir ses necessitez, 4 escuz=13s. 4d. Les menestereulx du Roy
d'Angleterre, du Prince de Gales et du Duc de Lencastre, qui firent
mestier devant le Roy, 40 nobles, valent 13l. 6s. 8d. Un menestrel qui
joua d'un chien et d'un singe devant le Roy qui aloit aus champs ce
jour, 3s. 4d.

_Lions in the Tower._ - Le garde des lions du Roy d'Angleterre, pour don
à li fait par le Roy qui ala veoir lesdiz lions, 3 nobles=20s.

_Visit to Queen Philippa._ - Un batelier de Londres qui mena le Roy et
aucun de ses genz d'emprès le pont de Londres jusques à Westmontier,
devers la Royne d'Angleterre, que le Roy ala veoir, et y souppa; et le
ramena ledit batelier. Pour ce, 3 nobles=20s.

_Dinner with Edward III._ - Les bateliers qui menèrent, en 2 barges, le
Roy et ses genz à Westmonster, ce jour qu'il disna avec le Roy
d'Angleterre, 66s. 8d.

_A Row on the River Thames._ - Plusieurs bateliers de Londres qui
menèrent le Roy esbatre à _Ride-Ride_ [Redriff _alias_ Rotherhithe?] et
ailleurs, par le rivière de Tamise, pour don fait à eulx, 8 nobles,
valent 53s. 3d.

_The King's great Ship._ - Les ouvriers de la grant nef du Roy
d'Angleterre, que le Roy ala veoir en venant d'esbatre des champs, pour
don à eulx fait, 33s. 4d.

_A Climbing Feat on Dover Heights._ - Un homme de Douvre, appelé _le
Rampeur_, qui rampa devent le Roy contremont la roche devant l'ermitage
de Douvre, pour don, &c., 5 nobles=33s. 4d.

_Presents._ - At Dover on July 6th, 1360, John dined at the Castle with
the Black Prince, when an 'esquire' of the King of England brought to
the King of France 'le propre gobelet à quoy ledit Roy d'Angleterre
buvoit, que il li envoioit en don;' and the French King sent Edward as
a present 'le propre henap à quoy il buvoit, qui fu Monseigneur St.
Loys.' _N.B._ This hanap was a famous drinking cup which had belonged
to St. Louis.

_Newgate Prisoners._ - Pour aumosne faite à eulx, 66s. 8d.

_Pembroke Palace._ - Un varlet qui garde l'ostel Madame de Pannebroc'
[Marie de Saint Pol, Countess of Pembroke] à Londres, où le Roy fist
petit disper ce jour, 2 nobles=13s. 4d.

_Horse-dealing._ - Lite Wace, Marchant de chevaur, pour 1 corsier acheté
de li pour le Roy, 60 nobles=20l.

_Cock-fighting._ - Jacques de la Sausserie, pour 1 coc acheté du
commandement Mons. Philippe à faire jouster, 2s. 8d."

W. M. R. E.

[Footnote 1: Among the Royal MSS. in the British Museum is Guiart des
Moulin's translation of Pet. Comestor's _Historia Scholastica_, which was
found in the tent of John at the battle of Poitiers. (Vide Warton's _Eng.
Poetry_, vol. i. p. 90.)]

{507}

* * * * *

WAY OF INDICATING TIME IN MUSIC.

The following rough mixture of Notes and Queries may serve to excite
attention to the subject. The merest beginner is aware that the letter C,
with a vertical line drawn through it, denotes _common time_; in which he
will take the C for the first letter of _common_. The symbols of old music
are four: the circle, the semicircle, and the two with vertical lines drawn
through them. After these were written 2 or 3, according as the time was
double or triple. And instead of a bar drawn through the circle or
semicircle, a central point was sometimes inserted. All these are true
facts, whether connected or unconnected, and whether any implication
conveyed in any way of stating them be true or false. The C, with a line
through it, certainly did not distinguish common time from triple. Alsted,
in his _Encyclopædia_ (1649), says that it means the _beginning of the
music_; without any reference to time. Solomon de Caus, known as having had
the steam-engine claimed for him, but who certainly wrote on music in 1615,
found the circles, &c. so variously used by different writers, that he
abandons all attempt at description or reconciliation.

May I suggest an origin for the crossed C? In the oldest church music, it
often happens that the lines are made to begin with a vertical line
impaling two lozenges, with a third lozenge between them, but on one side.
It is as if in the three of diamonds the middle lozenge were removed a
little to the left, the upper and lower ones sliding on a vertical line
until they nearly touch the removed middle one. Now if this figure were
imitated _currente calamo_, as in rapid writing, it would certainly become
an angle crossed by a vertical line; which angle would perhaps be rounded,
thus giving the crossed semicircle. Has this derivation been suggested? Or
can any one suggest a better?

But, it will be said, whence comes the full circle? It is possible that
there may have happened in this case what has happened in others: namely,
that a symbol invented, and firmly established, before the partial disuse
of Latin, may have been extended in different ways by the vernacular
writers of different countries. This has happened in the case of the words
_million_, _billion_, _trillion_, &c. The first, and the root of all, was
established early, and while no vernacular works existed, and it has only
one meaning. The others, certainly introduced at a later time, mean
different things in different countries. May it not have been that the
variety of usage which De Caus notes, may have arisen from different
writers, ignorant of each other, choosing each his own mode of deriving
other symbols from the crossed semicircle, obtained as suggested by me? I
am fully aware of the risk of such suggestions - but they have often led to
something better.

M.

* * * * *


Minor Notes.

_A smart Saying of Baxter._ - In his _Aggravations of Vain Babbling_,
speaking of gossips, Baxter says:

"If I had one to send to school that were sick of the talking evil - the
_morbus loquendi_ - I would give (as Isocrates required) a double pay to
the schoolmaster willingly; one part for teaching him to hold his
tongue, and the other half for teaching him to speak. I should think
many such men and women half cured if they were half as weary of
speaking as I am of hearing them. _He that lets such twattling swallows
build in his chimney may look to have his pottage savour of their
dung._"

B. B.

_Latin Hexameters on the Bible._ - The verses given under this title by LORD
BRAYBROOKE, in Vol. v., p. 414., remind me of a similar method which I
adopted, when at school, in order to impress upon my memory the names of
the Jewish months. The lines run thus: -

"Nisan Abib, Iyar Zif, Sivan, Thammuz, Ab, Elul;
Tisri, Marchesvan, Chisleu, Thebeth, Sebat, Adar."

The first verse commences with the first month of the ecclesiastical year,
the second with the first month of the civil year.

A. W.

_Ancient Connexion of Cornwall and Phoenicia._ - The effort to trace the
ancient connexion of countries by the relics of their different customs,
would be amusing if not useful. The fragment of the voyage of Hamilcar the
Carthaginian confirms the trade of the Phoenicians with Cornwall for tin.
The Roman writers still extant confirm it. The traffic was carried on by
way of Gades or Cadiz, the Carthaginians being the carriers for the
Phoenicians. In Andalusia to this day, middle-aged and old men are
addressed _Tio_, or uncle; as _Tio Gorgè_, "Uncle George." This custom
prevails in Cornwall also, and only there besides. Is not that a trace of
the old intercourse? Again, clouted cream, known only in the duchy of
Cornwall, which once extended as far as the river Exe in Devon, is only
found besides in Syria and near modern Tyre, whence the same tin trade was
carried on. These are curious coincidences. Many of the old Cornish words
are evidently of Spanish origin: as _cariad_, _caridad_, charity or
benevolence; _Egloz_ or _Eglez_, a church; _Iglesia_ or _Yglezia_, and many
others, which seem to bear a relation to the same intercourse.

The notice respecting the word _cot_ or _cote_, - termination of proper
names in a particular district in Cornwall, - already mentioned in these
pages, supposed to be Saxon from the idea that its use was confined to one
district, which I have shown to be a mistake, may be from the Cornish word
_icot_, "below," in place of the Saxon _cote_ or _cot_, "cottage." Thus,
_goracot_ is probably from _gora_ or _gorra_, and _icot_, i. e. "down
below." {508} _Trelacot_ from _Tre_, "a town," and _icot_, "below." The _l_
was often prefixed for sound sake: as _lavalu_ for _avalu_, "an apple;"
_quedhan lavalu_, "an apple tree;" _Callacot_, from _cala_, or _calla_,
"straw," and _icot_. The introduction of the vowel _a_ for _i_ might be a
corruption in spelling after the sound. This is only surmise, but it has an
appearance of probability.

CYRUS REDDING.

_Portrait of John Rogers, the Proto-Martyr._ - Should you think the
following minor Note interesting to your correspondent KT., perhaps you
will find a corner for it in your miscellany.

Living some time ago on the picturesque coast of Dorsetshire, I had the
good fortune to have for a neighbour a lady of cultivated taste and
literary acquirements; among other specimens of antiquity and art to which
she drew my attention, was a portrait, in oil, of John Rogers; it was of
the size called "Kit Cat," and was well painted. This portrait she held in
great veneration and esteem, declaring herself to be (if my memory does not
deceive me) a descendant of this champion of Christianity, whose name
stands on the "muster roll" of the "noble army of martyrs."

In case KT. should wish to push his inquiries in this quarter, I inclose
you the name and address of the lady above alluded to.

M. W. B.

"_Brallaghan, or the Deipnosophists._" - Edward Kenealey, Esq., reprinted
under the above sonorous title (London: E. Churton, 1845) some amusing
contributions of his to _Fraser_ and other Magazines. At pp. 94. and 97. he
gives us, however, the "Uxor non est ducenda" and the "Uxor est ducenda" of
the celebrated Walter Haddon; and that too without the slightest intimation
that he himself was not their author. It is not, I think, fair for any man
thus to shine in borrowed plumes, or at least transcribe verbatim, and
without acknowledgment, from a writer so little known and old-fashioned as
Haddon. Let me therefore give the reference, for the benefit of the
curious: _D. Gualteri Haddoni Poemata_, pp. 70-3. Londini, 1567, 4to.

RT.

_Stilts used by the Irish._ - We have all heard of the use of stilts by the
shepherds of the Landes; but I have met with _only one_ passage which
speaks of their use in Ireland. I have crossed rivers, both in Scotland and
in Ireland, on stilts, when the water was not deep, and have seen them kept
instead of a ferryboat, when there was no bridge, but do not think they are
in common use at the present day. The passage in question is quoted in
Ledwich's _Antiquities_, p. 300.:

"I had almost forgotten to notice a very remarkable particular recorded
by Strada (Strada, _Belg._, 1. viii. p. 404., Borlase's Reduction,
132.). He tells us that Sir Wm. Pelham, who had been Lord Justice of
Ireland, led into the Low Countries in 1586 fourteen hundred wild
Irish, clad only below the navel, and mounted on _stilts_, which they
used in passing rivers: they were armed with bows and arrows. Having
never met with this use of stilts among any other people, it seemed a
matter of curiosity to notice it here."

EIRIONNACH.

* * * * *


Queries.

ETYMOLOGY OF THE WORD "DEVIL."

What is the etymology of the word _devil_? This may appear an unnecessary
question, since we have a regular chain of etyma, [Greek: diabolos,]
_diabolus_, _diavolo_, _devil_. But it is the first of this chain that
puzzles me. I am aware that it is considered a translation of [Hebrew:
SAT`AN], and is derived usually from [Greek: diaballein], _calumniare_. But
[Hebrew: SAT`AN] means _adversarius_, consequently the rendering would not
be accurate. As the word in classical writers always means a false accuser,
and never a supernatural agent of evil, I doubt the correctness of the
usual derivations in the case of ecclesiastical usage; and am inclined to
consider it one of the oriental words, in a Hellenistic dress, with which
the Septuagint and Greek Testament are replete. Mr. Borrow, in _Lavengro_,
instances as a reason for believing that divine and devilish were
originally the same words, the similarity of the gypsy word _Un-debel_,
God, and our word _devil_. Struck with this remark, on consideration of the
subject, I perceived that there were several other coincidences of the same
kind, as follows: - The Greek [Greek: daimôn] means either a good or bad
spirit of superhuman power. The Zend word _afrîtî_, "blessed," corresponds
to the Arabic _afrît_, "a rebellious angel." The Latin _divus_, "a god,"
(and of course [Greek: Dios], with all its variations,) belongs to the same
family as the Persian _dîv_, "a wizard or demon;" while the _jin_ or _jan_
of the _Arabian Nights_ answer to the forms _Zan_, _Zêna_, _Zeus_, _Janus_,
_Djana_ or _Diana_. All words denoting deified power, and employed by the
inhabitants of Greece and Umbria.

These singular resemblances may prove that fetish worship was more widely
spread than is generally believed, and I think justify my doubts as to the
etymology of the word in question.

RICHARD F. LITTLEDALE.

Dublin.

* * * * *

FORGED PAPAL SEAL.

An old seal was discovered some years ago by accident in the ruins of an
abbey in the south of Ireland, of which the followings is a description.
The workmanship is rude, the material a species of bronze. The impression
consists of a circle of raised spots: on either side are two venerable
human faces, both bearded; there is a rude cross between them. Above them
are the letters -

"S - P - A - S - P - E."

{509} These are supposed to stand for "St. Paul" and "St. Peter." It is
said that this seal was used for the purpose of affixing an impression to
an instrument which pretended to be a Papal Bull: in fact, that it was used
for forging Pope's Bulls. One of the objects of such forgeries (if they
really occurred) would be, to grant dispensations for marriages on account
of consanguinity. Some noble families in Ireland had very ancient Papal
dispensations of this nature. It would often be convenient that
extraordinary despatch should be used in obtaining a dispensation.

Can any of your correspondents compare the seals on those dispensations
with the above, or throw any light on the practice of dispensing with the
ecclesiastical law against consanguineous marriages?

H. F. H.

Wexford.

* * * * *

A PASSAGE IN "ALL'S WELL THAT ENDS WELL."


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