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Correspondence, papers and documents, of dates from 1856 to 1882 inclusive, relating to the northerly and westerly boundaries of the province of Ontario online

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stations, and to feed and maintain the people, both Europeans and Indians, stationed
thereat. It is proper, therefore, that I should draw your attention to the fact, that the
ultimate loss of those districts would most probably involve the Hudson's Bay Company
in very serious difficulties, and cause a great increase of expense in conducting the trade."

The object of Mr. Shepherd, in the foregoing statement, appears to be to induce a
belief that the Company would sustain an immediate pecuniary loss by the occupation of
the Bed Biver and the Saskatchewan districts as a portion of Canada, and under its juris-
diction, and that by reason of the Company being deprived of the power to trade or
buy pemican from the hunters, they would be placed in circumstances of difficulty and

It need scarcely be observed that the object of immigrants into that country, from
Europe, Canada, or other places, being settlement and the cultivation of the soU, their
farming operations could not materieJly interfere for some years to come with the pro-
viding of the staple article of " pemican " by the Hudson's Bay Company, upon which
so much stress is laid by Mr. Shepherd. If my understanding of the question la correct,
the desire of Canada is the extinction of the monopoly or exclusive rights of the Com-
pany in every portion of territory under Canadian rule, and the admission of the people
of Canada to carry on business operations at Bed Biver, the Saskatchewan, or any other
portion of British North America, as freely and as unrestrainedly as they may do in
Toronto or Montreal. It is not, I presume, the desire of Canada to exclude or prevent

* [Mr. GeorKO Gladman wm the gentleman selected m Chief Director of the Canadian Government
exploring expedition to the Red Biver country in 1857. See what is stated of him in the first paragraph
of his iiutmctions, p. 49, ante.— G. £. L.]

t Sees. Papers, Can., 1858, Vol. 16, No. 3.

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the Hudson's Bay Company from carrying on their commercial transactions at the Bed
Biver or the Saskatchewan, as freely as they now do at Lachine. £qual rights as British
subjects and merchants is all that is contended for by Canada, and as Canada does not
seek to deprive the "Company of any of their establishments or possessions in the Sas-
katchewan or B«d River districts, there is no good reason for supposing that the Com*
pany will in any way be debarred from providing as much pemican as they may think
neoessary for carrying on their trade as heretofore. It is evident many years must
dapse before the cultivable prairie lands will become so occupied by settlers as to inter-
fere materially with the trading of provisions from the hunters at Saskatchewan, and
▼hen that time arrives, domesticated animals will take the place of the buffalo.

The question of pecuniary compensation can, as I conceive, have reference only to
the right of soil which the Company claim to possess under their Charter, or by purchase
bom the Earl of Selkirk.

The license of exclusive trade with the Indians by the Company being limited to a
eertain time only, and those territories being reserved to be formed into colonies by Her
Majesty's Government whenever it may be considered proper to do so, I apprehend the
li^ts of the Company will cease as soon as the present letfse expires, and other govern-
ment than that of the Company is established.

Another remark made by Mr. Shepherd is this : " The Company assume that the
Qovemment (Canadian) will be responsible for the preservation of peace, and the main-
tenance of law and order in all the territory ceded to them, and that they will prevent
lawless and dishonest adventurers from infringing, from thence, the rights of the Com-
pany over the remaining portions of their territory."

In these observations, the Hudson's Bay Company assume to treat for the cession of
certain territories. As. a trading company of British merchants, they assume that the
Canadian Government will maintain law and order in the territories ceded to them by
the Company, which territories yet, in point of fact, belong to the natives. It may be
▼ell here to consider what the present government of the Red River and the Saskatchewan
districts really is. So far as the uninitiated know of the matter, it is generally under-
stood to be this : A Governor and a Council appointed by the Hudson's Bay Company,
and holding their meetings at the Company's forts in the Red River Settlement, form the
oitire executive administration. The Governor being also the only legal functionary in
the settlement, the Company's legal adviser, the judge, the directors of the Company (in
London) and their representative, the Governor of Rupert's Land (residing for the most
part at Lachine) make all the appointments. Hence it devolves chiefly on " the Gk>vemor
and Council of Assinniboia," as it is in Hudson's Bay form expressed, to preserve the
peace, and to maintain law and order in those districts. Can that government, appointed
although they be by the Company, and with all the influence of the Company to support
than — can tiiey prevent adventurers (I will not call them " lawless and dishonest," for
they are chiefly natives seeking to earn an honest livelihood in their own land) from
infringing upon the assumed rights of the Company over the other portions of what they
are pleased to oall Rupert's Land 1 They cannot, and it would be clearly an impossibility
for any government established by Canada to prevent natives of that country, or in fact
any others who might choose to do so, from trading in that extensive territory, wherever
they might find it most advantageous to do so. Nor can I suppose that a Canadian Gov-
enunent would for one moment under any circumstances entertain such an idea.

As is well known, the Hudson's Bay Company have for years past held leases from
Government of the King's Posts and Seigniories in Lower Canada. Have they been able
to prevent intrusion on the Queen's domain and infringements of the rights given by these
leases 1 No, certainly not ; and what has been their remedy? Recourse by civil action
to the courts of Canada whenever they were disposed to try the question. And so it will
and must be in the districts of Red River, when other laws than those of the Hudson's
Bay Company shall have been there established.

Whatever the form of government that may be decided upon, the preservation of
peace and the maintenance of law and order will, of course, be its legitimate objects.
There need, however, be no apprehension of any disturbance of the peace, except from
^ officers or servants of the Company, who may take upon themselves to determine (as


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in the case of Mr. Bannatyne) what is an infringement of the Companjr's rights, or an
intrusion on the Company's undefined boundary Une, according to their own ideas. It is,
therefore, in my humble opinion, much to be desired, even for the sake of peace and good
order, that the whole trade should be free and open to all British subjects.

That it would be requisite, in such case, to place the trade under certain restrictions
and enacuments (as to the introduction of ardent spirits, for instance) is clear, but that
all in the territory, from the Rocky Mountains to the Hudson's Bay, whether ser^rants of
the Hudson's Bay Company or not, whether at Red River or on the shores of Hudson's
Bay, should be amenable to the jurisdiction of the Red River Government, is ec lally
clear, and a measure of necessity and good policy.

As regards the governing of these territories from or by Canada, the difficulties do
not appear greater than they are at the present moment, under the rule of the Company.
The gentleman who fills the office of Governor of Assinniboia is a lawyer from Montreal,
and it will have been observed by my previous remarks, that the whole machinery of his
government consists of a Council, acting under instructions from Lachine or from London.
If the Company can govern these districts in a mode so simple, there is no question but
that the Canadian Government can devise one equally as simple, or one more efficacious
and more satisfactory to the mass of the people, especially when the line of intercommu-
nication between Lake Superior and the Red River will be less difficult than it now is. If
the lands on the borders of Lake Superior, on the Rainy River, and on Red River, were
surveyed and laid out in townships for settlement, under the authority of the Govem_
ment, and gradual occupation promoted by the opening out of a practicable road, the
appointment of magistrates, and the establishing of a municipal code similar to that of
Canada, conferring on the inhabitants the rights of election in their several municipalities
would be all that the state of the country would require for several years to come.

I am confident I speak the sentiments of the Red River people when I say their
chief desires are, a voice in their own government, and freedom to trade in the best
markets within their reach.

I venture to offer these few remarks, suggested by the local knowledge and experience
acquired in the several positions in which I have been placed, and submitting them to
your favourable construction as to the motives by which I am actuated.

To the Honourable

The President of the Council

I have the honour, etc,

George Gladhan.

The Provincial Secretary to Sir George Simpson, the Hudson's Bay Company's

Governor op Rupert's Land.*

Secretary's Office,

Toronto, Uth April, 1868.

Sir, — I am commanded by his Excellency the Governor-General to state to you, for
the information of the Honourable Hudson's Bay Company, that it is the intention of the
Canadian Government to send another expedition this year. into the country in the neigh-
bourhood of the Red River Settlement, for the purposes of exploration.

2. The expedition will be divided into two parties, of which one will be under the
direction of Professor Hind, and the other under that of Mr. Dawson. Both of these
gentlemen served with the expedition last year, and the latter is still at Red River.

3. The operations of Mr. Dawson and his party, probably about twenty men, ^ill be
confined pretty much to the same ground as last year^ namely^ the route from Fort

♦ Seas. Papen, Can., 1858, VoL 16, No. 3.

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WiDiam to Fort Garry ; while the operations of Professor Hind |ind his staJBT will extend
to the country west of Red River and Lake Winnipeg, and below the Rivers Assiniboine
and Saskatchewan, as far west as " South Branch House."

4. His Excellency desires to bespeak through you for the expedition this year the
same courteous assistance from the officers and servants of the Company on the line of the
proposed expedition, which was so readily proffered last year, and which was (his Excel-
lency is informed^ so freely extended to all the members of the expedition.

5. This letter will be delivered to you by Professor Hind, who is about to repair to
Montreal on business connected with the expedition.

6. Professor Hind would be glad to be favoured by you with a general letter,
addressed to the officers in charge of the Company's posts on tibe route about to be visited
by him, requesting them to promote, as far as in their power, the general objects of the
expedition under his charge. His Excellency desires me to state that he trusts it will be
in your power to gratify Mr. Hind's wishes in this matter, as he doubts not it would very
materially advance the object of the expedition.

I have the honour, etc.,


Sir George Simpson,

Governor Hudson's Bay Company,
Hudson's Bay House,

Lachine, Montreal.

Sir George Simpson to the Provincial Secretary.*

Hudson's Bat House,

Lachine, 23rd April, 1858.

Sir, — I have the honour to acknowledge your communication, dated 14th instant,
informing me, by command of his Excellency the Governor-General, of the intention of
the Canadian Government to send another expedition this year to the neighbourhood of
the Red River Settlement, for the purposes of exploration, and requesting for the expe-
dition the same assistance from the Hudson's Bay Company as was rendered to its mem-
bers last season.

In reply, I beg to state that your letter was delivered to me in person by Professor
Hind, to whom I intimated verbally, that it afforded the Hudson's Bay Company at all
times great pleasure to render good offices to the Government of Canada, and that such
assistance as could be given at the Company's posts to the expedition under his command
would be freely rendered.

I have already furnished Professor Hind with the letters of introduction to the
Hudson's Bay Company's officers, which you apply for, and given him the necessary
4u^ority to obtain canoes and other supplies at Sault Ste. Marie and Fort William.
The usual equipment of tent and other camp appointments for his use, while travelling in
the interior, has been provided from the Company's store.

Begging you will assure his Excellency the Governor-General that the Hudson's Bay
Company will forward the objects of the exploring expedition with the same cordiaHty
▼iUi which they are ever anxious to co-operate with the Government of this Province,

I have the honour, etc.,

G. Simpson.
The Honourable T. J. J. Loranger,
etc, etc.

*Se88. Papen, Can., 1B58, VoL 16, Na 3.

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Address of the Canadian Parliament to Her Majbstt, 13th August, 1858.^
To the Queen's Most ExceUerU Majesty,

Most Gracious Sovereign, —

We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Legislative Council and
Assembly of Canada, in Provincial Parliament assembled, humbly approach Your Majesty,
for the purpose of representing —

That the approaching termination of the License of Trade granted by Your Majesty's
Imperial Government to the Hudson's Bay Company over the Indian Territories, a portion
of which, in our humble opinion, Canada has a right to claim as forming part of her Uxn-
tory, renders imperative the adoption of such measures as may be necessary to give effect
to the rights of the Province, and presents a favourable opportunity for obtaining a final
decision on the validity of the Charter of the Company, and the boundary of Canada on
the north and west.

That Canada, whose rights stand affected by that Charter, to which she was not a
party, and the validity of which has been questioned for more than a century and a half,
has, in our humble opinion, a right to request from Your Majesty's Imperial Government
a decision of this question, with a view of putting an end to discussions and questions of
conflicting rights, prejudicial as well to Your Majesty's Imperial Government as to
Canada, and which, while unsettled, must prevent the colonization of the coihatry.

That the settlement of the boundary line is immediately required, and that therefore
we humbly pray Your Majesty that the subject thereof may be forthwith submitted for
the opinion of the Judicial Comihittee of Your Majesty's Privy Council, but without
restriction as to any question Canada may deem it proper to present on the validity of
the said Charter, or for the maintenance of her rights.

That any renewal of the license to trade over the Indian Territories should, in our
humble opinion, be granted only upon the conditions that such portions thereof, or of the
other territories claimed by the Company (even if their Charter be held valid), as may be
required from time to time to be set apart by Canada, or by Your Majesty's Government,
into settlements for colonization, should, as so required, be withdrawn from under any
such license and the jurisdiction and control of the said Company ; and that Tour
Majesty's Government, or the Governor-General in Council, should be permitted to grant
licenses to trade in any portions of the said territories while held by or in occupation of
the said Company, upon such conditions for the observance of law and the preservation
of the peace, for the prohibition or restriction of the sale of ardent spirits, for the protec-
tion of Indian tribes from injury or imposition, and with such other provisions as to Your
Majesty's Government, or to his Excellency in Council, may seem advisable.

That in our humble opinion Canada should not be called upon to compensate the
said Company for any portion of such territory from which they may withdraw, or be
compelled to withdraw, but that the said Company should be allowed to retain and dispose
of any portion of the lands thereof on which they have built or improved.

All which we humbly pray Your Majesty to take into Your Majesty's gracious and
favourable consideration.

* Journals, LegiBlative Assembly, Canada, 1858, p. 1028.

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Rbsolutions, moved bt Mb. W. MoD. Dawson, in the Lbqislatiyb Abbkmbly^
Canada, 13th August, 1858, in amendment to the Resolutions fob the


1. Reaolvedy That Canada, or New France, as originally known and recognized hj
Eon^pean nations, had no limit towards the north except the Frozen Sea, and no limit
towards the west except the Pacific Ocean.

2. Beadved, That a Charter was granted hj King Charles the Second of England, in
1670, to certain parties as " The Merchants Adventurers of England, trading to Hudson's
Baj," which, although neither the grantor nor the British people knew anything, at
that time, of the interior of the country about Hudson's Bay, nevertheless precluded the
Company from entering upon the possessions of France ; the Charter thus bearing upon
its face a doubt of the extent, or indeed the existence, of the title it professed to convey,
and a knowledge of the fact that the right to the country, even on the shores of Hudson's
Bay (which only was then known to England), was, in whole or in part, vested in France.

3. Resolved^ That from the first moment the intrusion of the Hudson's Bay Company
l>ecame known to France, or to the Canadian authorities of that day, it was forcibly and
for the most part successfully resisted, though in a time of peace between Great Britain
aad France.

4. Resolved^ That by the Treaty of Peace concluded at Ryswick, in 1697, between
Oreat Britain and France, most of the places situate on Hudson's Bay were recognized as
belonging to France, while the claims of the two nations to the remaining places were to
be determined by commissioners respectively appointed for that purpose, who, however,
never met for the object contemplated.

5. Resolvedy That by the TvedXj of Peace concluded at Utrecht, in 1713, the whole
of Hudson's Bay (saving the rights of the French occupants down to that period) was
ceded by France to Great Britain, but without defined limits, which were also to be
determined by commissioners, who, however, in like manner, never met for the purpose.

6. Resolved^ That the extent of the actual possession, by each of the two nations,
affords, therefore, for the next fifty years, the true basis of their respective rights, tmaf-
fected by the various propositions, not based upon the treaty, but conventionally made or
rejected by the one or the other.

7. Resolved, That during the said period the possession of Great Britain, through
the medium of the Hudson's Bay Company, was confined to the shores of Hudson's Bay,
or extended a very short distance inland, while France was in possession of the interior
^nntries to the south and west, including the Bed River, Lake Winnipeg, the Sas-
katchewan, etc.

8.. Resolved, That by the Treaty of Paris, in 1763, Canada was ceded by France, as
then possessed by her, to Great Britain, reserving to the French inhabitants all the rights
iuid privileges of British subjects — a provision made specially applicable to the Western
Territories (then the great seat of the fur trade) by the capittdation of Montreal.

9. Resolved, That Canadians, alike of British and French origin, continued the fur
trade on a large and increasing scale, from 1763 to 1821, by the Ottawa, Lake Superior,
the Saskatchewan, etc., west to the Pacific Ocean, and by the McKenzie River north to
the North Sea.

10. Resolved, That la 1774, the Hudson's Bay Company, exercising the undoubted
nght of British subjects, also entered upon the Saskatchewan and other parts of the

* JournftlB, Legislative Aisembly, Canada, 1858, p. 1026. The yeas and nays, appearing at p. 1038 of
the same Journals, were as follows :

Teas— Messieurs Aikins, Bell, Biggar, Cauchon^ Christie, Clark, Dawson, Borland, Dufresne, *^^d,*
Hubert, Howland, Jobin, Mattice, McDougall, McKellar, Munro, Notman, Papineau, Powell (Walker),
Bymal, Short, Wright.— 28.

Kats— Messieurs Archambeault, Baby. Beaubien, BeUingham, Benjamin, Burton, Cameron (John)«
^^wKng, Cayley, CartierJAtty.-Gen.), Coutlde, Daoust, Dionne, Dunkin, Ferres, Foumier, Gaudet, Har-
^^po^Hofanes, Labelle, Lacoste, Laporte, LeBoutillier, Loranger, Macbeth, McCann, McDonald (A. P.)^
Melficken, Morrison, Panet, Playfair, Robinson, Eoblin, Eoee (SoL-Gen.), Scott (William), Sioott^
Snuvd, Simpson, Smith (Sidney), Talbot, Turootte, Wright.— 42.

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/Canadian Territory ceded by the Treaty of Paris, and carried on the fur trade there,
though on a lesser scale than the North- West Company of Canada.

11. Besolved, That, about the year 1812, the Hudson's Bay Company, under the
auspices of the Earl of Selkirk, set up the pretence that the countries on the Red River,
the Saskatchewan, etc., and the jurisdiction thereof, belonged to them in virtue of their
Charter of 1670, and attempted practicaUy to enforce this view by the expulsion of the
North-West Company, which, however, they failed to effect, and in the attempt to do
which the decisions of the Imperial and Canadian authorities were uniformly adverse to
their pretensions.

12. Eesolvedy That after a protracted struggle between* the two Companies, they
united in 1821, and obtained a joint lease from the Imperial Government of the '< Indian

13. Eesolvedy That under this lease the two Companies — uniting upon the policy of
the Hudson's Bay Company — have since carried their trade through Hudson's Bay,
allowing the cheaper and more advantageous route by the St. Lawrence to fall into disuse,
to the serious detriment of the resources of Canada, to which the fur trade had always
been a source of great wealth.

14. Reaolvedy That the said "Indian Territories" being without any specific terri-
torial designation, the Company have taken advantage of this circumstance to disseminate
such views as were most suitable to their own objects ; publishing maps and creating
territorial divisions, upon paper, alike inconsistent with all authority, contrary to his-
torical facts, adverse to geographical association, and even in direct contradiction to the
terms of the Statute under which their lease is held ; and by these means they have suc-
ceeded in imposing upon the people of Canada so as to exclude them fiom a lucrative
trade which, in fact, there is no lease, charter, or law to prevent them from prosecuting.

15. Reaolvedy That, therefore, the Hudson's Bay Company under their Charter (in
ilself held by eminent jurists to be invalid and unconstitutional, void, also, as this House
believes it to be,' on the ground that the countries ifc professes to grant belonged at that
period to France) cannot, by virtue thereof, in any ovenfc, claim the interior count^-ies on
Lake Winnipeg and the SaskaU;hewan ; and under* their lease of the Indian Territories
can claim the exclusive trade of such countries only as they may prove to be no part of

16. Resolvedy That this House maintains the right of the people of this Province to
enter upon and freely to trade in that part of Canada, or Nouvelle France, as originally
known, on Hudson's Bay, ceded by France lo Great Britain in 1713; and, independently
of the ownership thereof having been in France previous to 1670, denies the existence of
any constitutional restriction to preclude them from enjoying the rights of British subjects
in that or any other British territory.

17. Eesolvedy That, by the Treaty of Paris, the Mississippi necessarily became the
westerly boundary of the then southerly part of Canada (now part of the United States),

Online LibraryOntario. Legislative AssemblyCorrespondence, papers and documents, of dates from 1856 to 1882 inclusive, relating to the northerly and westerly boundaries of the province of Ontario → online text (page 15 of 86)