Ontario. Legislative Assembly.

Correspondence, papers and documents, of dates from 1856 to 1882 inclusive, relating to the northerly and westerly boundaries of the province of Ontario online

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Online LibraryOntario. Legislative AssemblyCorrespondence, papers and documents, of dates from 1856 to 1882 inclusive, relating to the northerly and westerly boundaries of the province of Ontario → online text (page 40 of 86)
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Province of Ontario claims the boundary line is very different from the one defined by
the said instructions, and cannot consent to the prosecution of the Commission for tl^
purpose of marking on the ground the line so defined, and that the Commissioner appointed
by the Government of Ontario should be instructed to abstain from taking any farther
action under his Commission.

Certified.

J. G. Scott,

Clerk E. C.

« Seas. Papers, Ont., 1873» No. 44, p. 17.



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ONT. COMMISSIONER DIRECTED TO ABSTAIN FROM FURTHER ACTION, 1872. 227



Thb Pboyincul Sbcbetabt to Mb. MoDouoall.*

Pboyikoial Sbcbetabt's Offiob,

ToBONTO, 26th March, 1872.

SiB, — I have the honour to transmit herewith a copy of an Order in Council, ap-
pzoTed of by His Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor, having reference to the proposed
settiement of the boundary line between the Province of Ontario and the North- West
Territories ; and also, a copy of the instructions given by the Dominion Government to
the Commissioner appointed to act on its behalf in the matter. I am, at the same time,
commanded by His Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor to direct you to abstain from
taking any further action as Commissioner for this Province.

I have the honour to be, Sir,

Your obedient servant,

Pbtbb Gow,

Se&retary.
Hon. William McDougall, C.B.,
Toronto.



Thb Lieutekakt-Govebkob to the Seobetabt of State, f

GOVEBNMENT HoUSE,

ToBONTO, 26th March, 1872.

Sib, — With reference to your despatch, dated 14th instant, relating to the location
of the boundary line between the Province of Ontario and the North- West Territories,
I have the honour to transmit herewith a copy of an Order in Council approved on the
25th instant, having regard to that matter.

I have, at the same time, to intimate that the Commissioner appointed on behalf
of my Government has been instructed to abstain from any further action under his
Oommiseion.

I have the honour to be, Sir,

Your obedient servant,

W. P. HOWLAND.

Hon. Secretary of State (Provinces), Ottawa.



The Seobetabt of State to the LiEUT£NAirr-GovEBMOB.t

Depabtment of the Seobetabt of State fob the Pboviuces,

Ottawa, 5th April, 1872.

Sib, — I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch, No. 444, of
the 26th ultimo, covering a certified copy of a Minute of your Executive Council, passed
on that day on the subject of the location of the boundary line between the Province of
Ontario and the North- West Territories, and at the same time intimating that the

♦ Seifc PApen, Ont, 1873, No. 44, p. 16. fiWd., p. 16. JiWrf., p. 17.

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228 ONTARIO GOVERNMENT INVITED TO STATE CLAIM AS TO BOUNDARY, 1872.



Commissioner appointed by your Government to act on their behalf in fixing the
said boundary has been instructed to abstain from any further action under his
Commission.

I have the honour to be, Sir,

Your obedient servant,

Joseph Howe,
Secretary of State for the Provinces,
Hon. W. P. Howland, C.B.,

Lieutenant-Grovernor, Toronto.



Report op a Committee of the Privy Council, approved by the Governob-
General on the 9th April, 1872.*

On the despatch of the Lieutenant-Governor of Ontario, dated 26th March hist,
on the subject of the location of the boundary line between the Province of Ontario and
the North- West Territories, the Committee of the Privy Council beg leave to report : —

That in a despatch from the Secretary of State for the Provinces to the Lieutenant-
Governor of Ontario, dated 30th November last, based upon a Minute of Council of the
28th November, it was suggested to the Government of Ontario that it was of great
consequence that the ascertaining and fixing on the ground of the boundary line in
question should be, as far as possible, expedited.

That the Lieutenant-Governor, in bis despatch of the 6th of January last, expressed
his concurrence in the necessity for immediate action, and to prevent unnecessary
delay, suggested that a draft of the instructions proposed to be given to the Com-
missioner appointed on behalf of the Dominion to locate the line, should be transmitted
for the consideration of the Government of Ontario at the earliest moment

That with the view of meeting the desire so expressed, a draft of the proposed
instructions was transmitted to the Lieutenant-Governor by despatch dated the 14th
of March last, and

That the Lieutenant-Governor, in reply, transmitted with the despatch of the 26th of
March now under consideration, an Order of his Executive Council to the following effect: —

"The Committee advise that the Government of Canada be informed that the
Province of Ontario claims that the boundary line is very different from the one
defined by the said instructions, and cannot consent to the prosecution of the Com-
mission for the purpose of marking on the ground the line so defined, and that the
Commissioner appointed by the Government of * Ontario should be instructed to abstain
from taking any further action under his Commission."

The Committee of the Privy Council regret that the Government of Ontario, while
expressing their difference of opinion from that of the Dominion, omitted to give their
own views on the subject, and they did not state what their claim as to the location
of the boundary line was.

As it is of the greatest consequence to the peace and well-being of the country in the
vicinity of the dividing line, that no questions as to jurisdiction, or the means of
prevention or punishment of crime should arise or be allowed to continue, the Committee
recommend that the Government of Ontario be invited to communicate their opinion on
the subject to your Excellency, together with a description of the boundary line which
they would suggest as the correct one. Should it be found, after an interchange of
opinions, that the two Governments cannot agree as to the location of the line, the
Committee do not doubt that both Governments will feel it their duty to settle without
delay upon some proper mode of determining, in an authoritative manner, the true
position of such boundary.

Certified.

Wm. H. Lee,

CUrk P. C.

* Sess, Papers, Out, 1873, No. 44, p. 18.

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BOUNDAKIES PROPOSED ON BEHALF OF ONTARIO, 1872. 229

The Secretary op State to the Lieutenant-Governor.*

Department op the Secretary op State for the Provinces,

Ottawa, 10th April, 1872.

Sib, — I have the honour to transmit for the consideration of your Government, a
certified copy of an Order of His Excellency the Governor General in Council, on your
despatch of the 24th ult., on the subject of the location of the boundary line between the
Province of Ontario and the North- West Territories.

Permit me to call your attention to the concluding paragraph of the Order in Council,
and for the reason therein set forth, to invite your Government to communicate their
opinion on the subject discussed in the Order, together with a description of the boundary
Ime which they could suggest as the correct one.

I have the honour to be. Sir,

Your obedient servant,

Joseph Howe,
Secreta/ry of State for the Provinces,

Hon. W. P. Howland, C.B., Lieutenant-Governor, Toronto.



Order in Council, approved by the Lieutenant-Governor on the 19th

April, 1872.t

The Committee of Council have had under consideration the despatch from the
Secretary of State for the Provinces of the 10th instant, on the subject of the boundary
line of Ontario, and the copy of an approved Minute of the Privy Council of Canada
enclosed. In this Minute the Privy Council regrets, " That the Government of Ontario,
while expressing their difference of opinion from that of the Dominion, omitted to give
their own views on the subject, and did not state what their claim as to the location of
the boundary was."

The Committee would observe that the despatch on which their Minute was founded
did not contain any invitation to the Government of Ontario to express its views or
state its claim.

The Government of Ontario is now invited to do so, and the Committee advise that the
Government of Canada should be informed that this Government proposes the boundary
contained in the annexed description.

The Committee further advise that the Government of Canada should be informed
that as to the western limit, in the opinion of this Government, there are grounds for
maintaining the contention of former Governments of Canada, that the limit of Ontario
is further west than the one proposed in the description, and that, while this Government
is prepared, in view of all the circumstances, to agree to the western limit so proposed,
in case the same is accepted by the Government of Canada, this Government does not
consider itself bound by the proposal in any other event.

As to the northern limit, it will be observed from the description that this Govern-
ment maintains the position which is supported by the contentions of all former
Governments, and by the indisputable facts, that the northern boundary lies north of the
watershed of the St Lawrence system, the line of which watershed is the northern
boundary laid down by the Government of Canada ; and the Committee advise that the
Government of Canada should be informed that, in view of all the circumstances, this
Government will be prepared, in case its position as to the northern boundary is agreed
to by the Government of Canada, to consider any proposal which may be made by that
Government for the establishment of a conventional limit to the north of that
watershed.

Certified.

J. G. Scott,

Clerk E. C,

♦ Seas. Papera, Ont., 1873, No. 44, p. 17. \Ihid., p. 19.

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230 BOUNDARIES PROPOSED ON BEHALF OF ONTARIO, 1872.

Proposed Description.

(Rtferred to in the annexed MvmUe of CormciL)^

The boundary line of Ontario is the international boundary from the mouth of the
Pigeon River, on Lake Superior, to a point west of the Lake of the Woods, where the
international boundary line would be intersected by a line drawn north from the source
of the Mississippi River ; thence the boundary line of Ontario runs north to the point of
intersection of the southern boundaries of the Hudson's Bay Territories; thence the
boundary line of Ontario is the southern boundary of those Territories to the point
where that boundary would be intersected by a line drawn north from the head of Lake
Temiscaming.



The Lieutenant-Governor to the Sboretart of State.!

OOVERNMENT HoUSE,

Toronto, 19th April, 1872.

Sir, — Adverting to the correspondence that has taken place with reference to the
settlement of the boundary line between the Province of Ontario and the North- W^est
Territories, I have no^ the honour to transmit a copy of an Order in Council, approved
this day, having regard to that question, and to invite the attention of the Dominion
Government thereto.

I have the honour to be. Sir,

YouT obedient servant,

W. P. HOWLAND.

Hon. Secretary of State (Provinces), Ottawa.



The Seorstart of State to the Lieutenant-Governor, t

Department of the Secretary of State for the Provinces,

Ottawa, 22nd April, 1872.

Sir, — I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch of the 19th
instant, adverting to previous correspondence with reference to the settlement of the
boundary line between the North-West Territories and the Province of Ontario, and
covering a copy of an Order of your Executive Council in relation to that question.

I have the honour to be. Sir,

Tour obedient servant,



Joseph Howe,
Secretary of State for the Provinces.



Hon. W. P. Howland, C.B.,

Lieutenant-Governor, Toronto.



♦Seas. Papers, Ont., 1873, No. 44, p. 19. flUd., p. 18. tA^^. p. If

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EXPENDITURE OF PUBUC MONEYS AT THUNDER BAY, ETC., 1872. 23 1



The Secretary Department of Public Works to the Secretary of State. "^

Department of Public Works,

Ottawa, 24th April, 1872.

Sir, — I am directed to transmit herewith, an account against the Province of Ontario,
for maintenance of police force at Thunder Bay, and cash advances, etc., for Court House
At Prince Arthiy^s Landing, amounting to (4,035.74, and to request that application may
ie made to the Government of that Province for an early settlement of the same.

I have the honour to be, Sir,

Your most obedient servant,

F. Brauh,

Stcrek^ry,
Honourable the Secretary of State for the Provinces, Ottawa.



The Secretary of State to the Lieutenant-Governor.*

Ottawa, 26th April, 1872.

Sir, — I have the honour to transmit you herewith, for the consideration of your
'Government, a copy of a letter from the Secretary of the Department of Public Works,
together with the account therein referred to, amounting in all to the sum of four
thousand and thirty-five dollars and seventy-four cents, for the maintenance of a police
force at Thunder Bay, and for cash advances, etc., for the Court House at Prince
Arthur's Landing.

I have the honour to be. Sir,

Your most obedient servant.



Joseph Howe,
Secretary of State /or the Fr<mno6$.



The Honourable W. P. Howland, C.B.,
Lieutenant-Governor, Toronto.



Report of the Minister of Justice. t

Department of Justice,

Ottawa, 1st May, 1872.

With reference to a despatch of the Lieutenant-Governor of Ontario, of the 19th
April, transmitting an Order in Council of that Province of the same date, on the
subject of the northern and western boundaries of the Province of Ontario, and in
whioh the Government of that Province transmits a description of what it holds
Ihose boundaries to be.

The undersigned has the honour to report that a considerable difference exists
between the Government of Canada and that of Ontario, in respect to the said northern
and western boundaries of Ontario, and until such boundaries are properly ascertained
and defined, no criminal jurisdiction can be effectively established or exercised in the
-disputed territory.

Having reference to the prospect of a large influx of people into the North-West
Territories, it is very material that crime should not go unpunished or unprevented, and

♦ SesB. Papew, Ont., 1873, No. 44, p. 26. ilhid., p. 20.

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232 DOMINION PROPOSAL FOR REFERENCE TO JUDICIAL COMMITTEE^ 1872.



in this view the undersigned has the honour to suggest that the Government of Ontario
be invited to concur in a statement of the case for immediate reference to the Judicial
Committee of the Privy Council of England, with a view to the settlement, bj a judgment
or decision of that tribunal, of the western and northern boundaries of Ontario.

This is the more necessary as no conventional arrangement between the two Govern-
ments, as to boundary, can confer criminal jurisdiction on the Courts of Ontario, unless
the place where any crime may be committed is, by law, within the Provinca

The undersigned has the honour, also, to call attention to the fact that the mineral
wealth of the North- West country is likely to attract a large immigration into those
parts, and, with a view to its development, as well as to prevent the confusion and strife
that is certain to arise and continue among the miners and other settlers so long as the
uncertainty as to boundary exists, the undersigned begs leave to recommend that the
Government of Ontario be urged to arrange with that of the Dominion for some joint
course of action as to the granting of land and of mining licenses, reservation of royalties,
etc., and for this purpose he would suggest that the Government of Ontario be moved to
appoint a Commissioner to meet the Hon. J. C. Aikins, and arrange some joint system ;
and that any such arrangement, when ratified by the two Governments, shall be held to
bind both, and shall be subject to the decision of the Judicial Committee of the Privy
Council upon the question of the boundary ; and that after such decision, titles to lands
or mining rights shall be confirmed by the Government, whether of Canada or of Ontario,
as shall, under the decision of the Judicial Committee, be the proper party to legalize
the same.

All which is respectfully submitted.

John A. Magdonald.



Report op a Committee op the Privy Council, approved by the Governor-General

ON the 16th May, 1872.*

The Committee of Council have had under consideration the annexed Memorandum,
dated May 1st, 1872, from the Honourable the Minister of Justice, having reference to
the settlement of the question of the northern and western boundaries of the Province of
Ontario, and they respectfully report their concurrence in the recommendations submitted
in the said Memorandum, and advise that the same be approved and adopted.

Certified.

Wm. H. Lee,
Cl^k RC.
To the Honourable

The Secretary of State, etc., etc., for the Provinces.



The Secretary of State to the Lieutenant-Governor.!

Ottawa, 16th May, 1872.

Sir, — Referring to your despatch of the 19th ultimo, covering an Order in Comicil
of the Government of Ontario, of the same date, on the subject of the northern and
western boundaries of that Province, I have the honour to enclose, for the information of
your Government, a copy of an Order of the Governor-General in Council, dated to-day,
together with a copy of the memorandum of the Honourable the Minister of Justice
mentioned therein.

2. I am, at the same time, for reasons set forth in the memorandum, to invite the
Government of Ontario to concur with the Government of Canada in a statement of the

♦ SesB. Papers, Ont, 1873, No. 44, p. 21. fibid., p. 20.

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ONTiLRIO FAVOURS A CONVENTIONAL SETTLEMENT OR ARBITRATION. 235



case now in dispute between the said Governments, respecting such boundaries, for
immediate reference to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, with the view to a
settlement, by a judgment or decision of that tribunal, of the western and northern
bbundaries of Ontario.

3. I am also to urge upon the Government of Ontario the necessity, in view of the
hicta stated in the last paragraph of the accompanying memorandum, of arranging with
the Government of the Dominion for some joint course of action as to the granting of
land and of mining Ucenses, reservation of royalties, etc., in the portion of territory in
controversy, and for this purpose I have to request you to move your Government to
appoint a Commissioner to meet the Honourable J. 0. Aikins to arrange such joint
system, on the understanding that any such arrangement when ratified by the two
Governments shall be held to bind both, and shall be subject to the decision of the Judicial
Committee of the Privy Council upon ihe question of the boundaries, and that after such
decision titles to lands or mining rights shall be confirmed by the Government, whether of
Canada or of Ontario, as shall under the decision of the Privy Council be the proper
party to legalize the same.

I have the honour to be, Sir,

Your most obedient servant,

Joseph Howe,
Secretary of State /or the Provinces,
The Honourable Wm. P. Howland, C.B.,
Lieutenant-Governor, Toronto.



Ordbb in Council, approved by the Lieutenant-Governor on the 31st May, 1872.*

The Committee of Council have had under consideration the despatch from the
Secretary of State for the Provinces, of the 16th May, with the Minute of Council and
memorandum of the Minister of Justice enclosed in that despatch, all relating to the
settlement of the question of the northern and western boundaries of the Province of
Ontario. The Committee of Council regrets that the Government of Canada does not
propose in any respect to modify its views with reference to these boundaries, opposed as
these views are to the general tenor of the expressions and conduct of the Governments
of the late Province of Canada, and of the Dominion in the past. The Committee of
Council also regrets that the Government of Canada is not prepared to negotiate for the
arriving at a conventional arrangement as regards the boundaries. The Committee infers
that the Government of Canada disapproves of that course in consequence of the difficulty
stated in the following extract from the memorandum of the Minister of Justice.

"This is the more necessary as no conventional arrangement between the two
Governments, as to boundary, can confer criminal jurisdiction on the Courts of Ontario,
unless the place where any crime may be committed is by law within the Province."

The Committee desires to call attention to the third clause of the Act of the Imperial
Parliament, passed 29th June, 1871, chap. 28, which is in these words :

" The Parliament of Canada may, from time to time, with the consent of the Legisla-
ture of any Province of the said Dominion, increase, diminish, or otherwise alter the
limits of such Province upon such terms and conditions as may be agreed to by the said
Legislature, and may, with the like consent, make provision respecting the effect and
operation of any such increase or diminution or alteration of territory in relation to any
Province affected thereby."

It appears to the Committee that under the operation of this clause it is quite
poadble to arrive at a conventional settlement of the question by the joint action of the
Executive and Legislative authorities of the Dominion and of the Province.

♦ Sesa. Papers, Ont., 1873, No. 44, p. 21.

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234 COUNTBB-PROPOSALS ON BEHALF OF ONTABIO, 1872.



With reference to the emergency arising out of the expected immigration daring
this spring and summer, it appears to the Committee that a short Act of ^e Parliament
of Canada, providing that the boundaries of the Province of Ontario should, for the
purposes of criminal jurisdiction, and so far as the Parliament of Canada can provide,
be deemed, pending the settlement of the question, to extend as far as the limits which
are specified in the memorandum transmitted to the Government of Canada by this
Government, would, though open to some objection, afford the best practicable solution of
that difficulty.

With reference to the proposed submission to the Judicial Committee of the Privy
Council, this Committee be^ to observe that the solution of the boundary question
depends upon numerous facts, the evidence as to many of which is procurable only in
America, and the collection of which would involve the expenditure of much time ; and
upon the whole the Committee is of opinion that the more satisfactory way of settling
the question, should the Government of Canada still decline to negotiate for a conven-
tional boundary, would be by reference to a Commission sitting on this side of the
Atlantic, and the Committee recommends that, without for the present dealing definitely
with the proposal of the Government of Canada for a reference to the Judicial Committee,
this counternsuggestion should be made to that Government

The Committee of Council entertains a strong conviction that it is the duty of the
Government of Ontario to retain in the meantime the control of the lands within the
boundaries claimed by it ; but as it is anxious that the policy of the Government with
reference to the disposition of these lands should, so far as practicable, conform to the
views of the Government of Canada, the Committee agrees that an effort should be made
to avoid the possible difficulties arising from the claims put forward by that Government,
and with this view the Committee recommends that the Honourable R. W. Scott should
be requested to confer with the Honourable J. C. Aikins, as proposed by the despatch
of the 16th May.

Certified.

J. G. Scott,

Clerk E. C.

Executive Council Chamber, 31st May, 1872.



The Libutknant-Govbbnob to thb Sbcrbtart of Statb.*

GOVBBKMBNT HOUSB,

ToBoifTO, 31st May, 1872.

Sir, — I have the honour to transmit herewith a copy of an Order in Council,
Approved this day, having reference to the settlement of the boundary line between the
Province of Ontario and the North-West Territories, and to invite the early attention of
the Dominion Government thereto.

I have the honour to be, Sir,

Your obedient servant,

W. P. HoWLANDi



PerE. G. Cubtis,

Private Seeretarjf.



Hon. Secretary of State (Provinces), Ottawa.



* Seu. Pftpen, Ont., 1873, No. 44, P. 21.

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EXPENDITURE OF PUBLIC MONEYS AT THUNDER BAY, ETC., 1872. 235



The Sbcrbtary op State to the Lieutenant-Governor.*

Department op the Secretary op State for the Provinces,

Ottawa, Ist June, 1872.

Sir, — I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your despatch of the 31st
ultimo, covering a copy of an Order of your Executive Council, having reference to the
settlement of tie boundary line between the Province of Ontario and the North- West



Online LibraryOntario. Legislative AssemblyCorrespondence, papers and documents, of dates from 1856 to 1882 inclusive, relating to the northerly and westerly boundaries of the province of Ontario → online text (page 40 of 86)