United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on Fore.

Compilation of reports of Committee ... 1789-1901, First Congress, first session, to Fifty-sixth Congress, second session .. online

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a verj proper one. I will not insist upon it.

Q. When do you say you were sworn to this paper; were you sworn
at all t

Mr. Lines. To this paper f

The Witness. I never was sworn to that.

By Mr. Wilson:
Q. Well

By the Chaibhan :
Q. Judge Wilson's question was, were you sworn t

By Mr. Wilson:
Q. Were you sworn on that examination f

By the Chairman :

Q. Was an oath administered to you! — A. No; that was adminis-
tered to me at the beginning.

Q. Well, was there at the end f — A. I have stated in my examination
that when I signed that paper and handed it to Sisson, he said: ^^ Is this
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,'' holding that
blank piece of paper in his band which I had requested him to transcribe.

By the Chairman :

Q. Then that was after you had made your statement! — A. Tes.

Q. And alter it had been drawn up by Mr. Pena, and after you had
also made the erasures and interlineations that you thought were neces-
sary to make a correct statement of what you had already informed the
examiner of.

Mr. Foster. But he added, after he had obtained the promise firom
Sisson that he would copy it all.

The Witness. Well, my reply to the Senator is this

By the Chairman:
Q. That is right: that is what I have understood about it; but if I
understand you, Mr. Dahlgren, you were not sworn to the contents of
the particular paper that is now before you t — A. Never; never saw it
before, except the signature.

By Mr. Wilson :
Q. The certificate of the consul states among other things —

That Charles B. Dahlgren, the witness herein, personally appeared before me, at my
coDsal-ar office in Mazatlan, State of Sinaloa, Mexico, on the day and at the time
hereinbefore stated, and that he was by me first duly sworn, as a witness on behalf of
claimant, to state the truth in answer to said interrogatories, propounded by n e,
touching the merits of the above- en titled cause, as hereinbefore set forth, and was
thereafter duly examined, and that the foregoing testimony was given by him, and
thereupon reduced to writing by H. Diaz Pe&a, in my presence.

I understand you to say that that is not true f — A. That is false.

Q. You say that is false! — A*. From beginning to end. He never
asked me one question in this thing, nor was he present to hear an
answer, except, as I have stated, to come in to attend to his consular
duties.



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THE LA ABBA SILVER MINING COMPANY. 707

By the Ohaibman:

Q. Yoa mean Sissouf — A. Sisson.
By Mr. Wilson:

Q. Yoasayiti8fal8efh)mbegiDoiDgtoendt — A. Yes; that statement
that he asked me questions and was present daring the examination.

Q. Welly he states in addition to that ^^ was by me first duly sworn f " —
A. I inclnde that in the statement. I was not awom autil the exami-
nation was over and I handed to him that blank sheet of paper. Then
he said, <^Is this the truth,. the whole truth, and nothing bat the truth f

Q. And that is your statement now in regard to itf — ^A. That is.
That is my statement. That Is the only swearing that was done in the
matter.

Q. Now, sir, did you ^A. And that is in the writing of the person

who wrote the main body of it.

By the Oh airman :

Q. In the handwriting, you mean t — ^A. Yes; the same handwriting.
By Mr. Wilson :

Q. Gertainly, and signed by Sisson ? — A. And signed by Sisson ; yes.

Q. Have you witnessed any other depositions that were taken in this
caset — A. I don't know; I don't recollect.

Q. When Adams was taking depositions up at your hacienda did you
witness the signatures to any of the parties to the depositions ? — A. I
don't recollect.

Q. You can not remember that f — ^A. No, sir; I might have done it.

Q. Were you present at a time when any of the depositions were taken
up there! — A. No, sir; only when I heard the altercation between
Granger and Adams and came in to stop the trouble.

Q. That is the only time you were present while the depositions were
being taken, was itf — A, I don't recollect of attending any of them for
the purpose of listening to the testimony or any thing of the sort.

By the Chairman :

Q. Mr. Dahlgren, let me inquire, if you please, was the altercation
of which you speak before you gave your statement at Mazatlan f — A.
Yes.

Q. While Adams was visiting your hacienda t — A. Yes.

Q. I will jast ask you briefly what the trouble was between Granger
and Adams T — A. Granger said that that was not his testimony.

Mr. FosTEB. That is all brought out in the direct examination.

The Chaibman. Very well ; then I will not ask it. I had forgotten
about that.

By Mr. Wilson:

Q. So you can not recollect being present at any time except that! —
A. No. I attended none of the examinations at San Dimas. Possibly
I went in the room ; it was next to my office. There was a door open,
but I was pushed with my own affairs, and out, as I told yon, up at the
mine and in the mill.

Q. But these depositions were being taken in a room adjoining your
office with a door open f— A. Yes, but I was in and oat.

Q. I want to know if that is the fact f — A. My recollection is that
that is the fact.

Q. Can you tell us now from whom you were contemplating to buy
that mine!— A. I did not say that I contemplated buying the Arrayan
mine.



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708 THE LA ABRA SILVEB MINING COMPANY.

Q. Well, who did! — A. I said that Janin contemplated baying it
aud he asked me to go over with him, being a stranger in the country.
I rode over and kept him company.

Q. What year was that! — A. I believe I have stated July, 1872.

Q. Yon do not know from whom he contemplated buying 1— -A. I
could state from Calderoon or James Granger, and I will add, either
the one or both. Whether it was Calderoon or Granger or both of them
I could not say. but both of them were interested in it.

Q. Interested in what f — A. In that mine ; the Arrayan mine.

Q. Now^ you have stated in the early part of your cross-examination
that you assayed ores that were said to come frt)m some of these mines t —
A. Yes.

Q. Who said sot — A. The people who brought them over.

Q. Who were the people who brought them overt — A. The miners;
I don't recollect their names.

Q. So you don't know whether they came from any of La Abra
Mining Company's mines or notf — A. Only the ore that I saw taken
frt)m the Arrayan mine; that is the only one.

Q. Just leave that out.

The Chairman. Well, that answers the question. He says only the
ores he saw taken from Arrayan mine.

Mr. FosTEB. Because he saw various collectious of ores.

The Chaibman. That seems to be an answer to the question.

By Mr. Wilson :

Q. How much ore did you 'take from the Arrayan minef — A. We
sampled at least one or two tons of ore from all parts of the mine.

Q. No, no. — A. Well, I told you we sampled one or two tons and
quartered it, and quartered it down again, and quartered it down until
we got about fifty pounds.

By the Chaibman:
Q. How much of that was from the Arrayan minet — A. It was all
.from Arrayan.

By Mr. Wilson :

Q. He took it out from the Arrayan mine f — A. Yes. J accompanied
him and held the receptacle to put it into and kept guard over it to see
that the mine was not salted.

Q. Had you ever seen the mine before that time f — A. Ko, sir.

Q. Had you ever seen any ore that came out of that mine before that
time? — A. i^o, sir; not that I know of.

Q. Do you know who was working that mine at that timet — A. Cal-
deroon.

Q. Do you know how long Calderoon had been working it f — A. No,
sir.

Q. Do you know how many different people bad been working it, or
how much ore had been taken out of it after La Abra Company ceased
to operate there f — A. No.

Q. So that of the condition of that mine at the time La Abra Company
went away you know nothing at all f — ^A. No, sir.

Q. Nor what had been done to it in the way of taking ores out of it t —
A. No, sir.

Q. And what quantity was taken out after that company went away
you know notliing about ! — ^A. Only what I heard. I answer it, I don't
know, except by hearsay.

Q. Very well. Now, that is the only mine from which you saw any



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THE LA ABEA SILVER MINING COBfPANY. 709

ore taken f — A. I have stated in my testimony that I sent my right-hand
man over and he sampled all this property.

Q. Yes ; yoa sent a man over there to examine t — A. Yes.

Q. And all yon know about it Is what he reported f — A. Exactlj .

Q. Who was your man t — A. Dr. Storch. He was my assayer. «

Q. He was the man you sent there f — A. Yes.

Q. Do you know where he got his ores from f— A. Yes.

Q. How do you know t — ^A. From the maps and reports he brought
back.

Q. Yes, and you only know from what he told you f — A. Yes; I kept
him for that purpose.

Q. Well, I don't care what you kept him for; that is all you know f —
A. Yos.

Q. And that was what yearf — A. It might have been 1873.

Q. Well, it might have been f— A. Well, I don't know ; 1872 or 1873.

Q. Now, you have testified here this morning that you made some
assays from the ores that you got from the patio of the hacienda t — A.
Yes.

Q. What year did you get those ores f — ^A. I think that was toward
the end of 1871, at the time 1 took the wheel out of the old mill — I
think that was in December, 1871.

Q. You had taken a part of this La Abra Company property from
that place f — A. Yes, I had.

Q. Will you tell us the property you took away t — ^A. I took a water-
wheel 24 feet in diameter and I think 6 feet breast.

Q. What else did you take away f — ^A. I took some retorts.

Q. How many ! — A. Two. -

Q. What else did you take away! — A. I took all such machinery as
1 needed. 1 can not recollect the pieces, but I took everything I needed
to complete my mill at San Dimas.

Q. In other words, you dismantled this mill for the purpose of build-
ing up your own f — ^A. I did.

Q. From whom did you buy that f — A. Santiago Granger.

Q. And was it when you took the mill-wheel away from there that
you sampled these ores on the patio f — A. Yes.

Q. And that was as late as the fall of 1871 f— A. Yes ; it was the
same time I was taking the wheel.

Q. Do you know when those ores were taken out that we're then on
the patio f— A. K"o, sir.

Q. Had Granger been working these mines after the company left! —
A. I don't know.

Q. Had Soto f — A. I did not know Soto then ; at least I had seen him
in San Dimas in a little store, but I never knew he was in Tayoltita
working any mines.

Mr. FoSTEB. Judge, for your information I will state that we have
had witnesses here who stated that they have worked the mines.

Mr. Wilson. I want to know what this witness knows about it.

The Witness. I have stated that I only knew Soto in San Dimas,
where he kept a little store.

By Mr. Wilson:

Q. Well, these ores that you sampled, you don't know when they were
taken out? — A. K"o; I don't know what year they were taken out.

Q. No; you don't know what mine they were taken out off — ^A. Yes;
out of La Abra or El Oristo.

Q. How do you know that t — ^A. From the people around the hacienda.



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710 THE liA ABRA SILVEB MINING COMPANY.

Q. Well, that is all yon know aboat itt — A. That is all; and that
Granger said they came ont there, and if I coald work them up and
make anything oat of them he woald allow me to take them over to
San Dimas and work them, giving him a royalty.
. Q. How much was there on the patio when you went over there in
the fall of 1871, when you sampled these orest

The Chairman. Do yon mean how many tonst

The Witness. I did not measure them, but there was a large amonnt
of ores; they covered the whole patio, right up against the mill building.

By Mr. Wilson:

Q. Was it spread out over the patio t—- A. Yes; it was high. You
could not ride over it; I tried to ride over it once or twice.

Q. And do you know how those ores had been handled from the time
they were taken out of the mine until you took year samples t — A. Only
by what I saw. The moss and grass had grown around and over it, and
they seemed to have been left there undisturbed for a long while; how
long 1 can not say.

Q. Do you know anything about the habits of the people down there
in carrying away the b'St part of the ores after they have been taken
outt — A. I do, sir; and I have had lots of experience in it.

Q. Well, what is it t — A. I know if there is any good ore in sight, and
it is not watched, that they will pack it off.

Q. And in the course of five or six years if the thing was not accu-
rately watched the best ores would be carried away, would they not, if
there was a lot taken out and put on the patio t — A. Oh, yes; they would
be packed off if there were any good ores.

Q. Yes, they would be packed off. — A. I could give a whole account
of the stealing of ore here, because it is a business. It is not looked on
as a crime at all.

Q. It is not considered an offense at all Y — A. Ko, sir.

Q. And whenever a Mexican can get his hands on a good piece of
ore he feels at perfect liberty to carry it away provided nobody catches
him? — A. If it is neglected; that is, if you leave a piece of ore at the
mouth of a mine and go away and do not watch it, they come along and
see it and will pick it up and go away.

Q. Well, if it is put on the patio does it make any difference t — ^A.
Not if it is an abandoned patio. If it is unguarded, whoever comes
along picks it up, the same as you would pick up a twenty-dollar piece
if you found it on Pennsylvania avenue.

Q. Now, Mr. Dahlgren, you do not pretend to be able to state to the
committee what that ore was ; how much good, bad, or indifferent there
was in this ore when it was taken out five or six years before, do yout —
A. No, sir, I don't know, and I stated so to General Adams ; that I knew
nothing about the ore.

Q. Do I understand you to have said in your examination-in-chief that
you did not know that your deposition was to be used before a commis-
sion t — ^A. I supposed, of course, that it was to be used somewhere, but
I did not know of any international matter between the United States
and Mexico.

Q. Well, you did understand, then, that yon were giving testimony

tl^^t/W^ itQib^ ^sed as evidence in the trial of the case somewhere Y —

A. IiaiQPiPi>^P^i^9]t»ujkX was not informed so; but I knew nothings 6en-

. ei;s|! A^'^iim^^di(l^^f)tA^^ ^^ that he was collecting it to be used before

a commission.

Q. Welli lam only confining my question to this : Did you understand



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THE LA ABRA SILVER MINING COMPANY. 711

that ;poa were giving testimony that was to be ased as evidence in the
trial of some canse, somewhere, before some tribunal t — A. No, sir ; that
it might be osed, bat not that it was or that any case was on.

There is one thing I wonld like to state here and which will enlighten
yon. General Adams had asked me in San Dimas if I would testify
and I declined, and when 1 met him again in Mazatlan, some months
afterward, then he asked me these questions and I told him at the time
that I thought my evidence would be of no benefit to him.

Q. Wellt — A. But I did not know that he was going to use that be-
fore any commission, but I imagined that he might use it if necessary.

Q. All right t — ^A. And he never said that he was going to use it be-
fore any commission.

Q. What idea did you have, now^ as to his purpose in going down
there to Mexico and going to all this trouble and expense to get testi-
mony |did you have any idea about it at allt — ^A. No; I did not.

Q. Who was this man Avalos t — A. He was a Mexican Indian from
Topi c: fr om the State of Jalisco. '

Q. Were you well acquainted with him t — A. He was my confiden-
tial man for carrying money to and fro — and silver.

Q. 1 believe you stated the other day he was very reliable ! — A. He
was.

Q. An honest man? — A. 1 never knew him to steal a sixpence or lie.
He was honest and brave.

Q. And truthful t— A. And truthful.

By the Chairman:
Q. And intelligentt — A. I th,ink he was as intelligent as one of those
Indians can be. For instance, in asking me about it he said, ^^ I have
given my testimony; will any harm come of it?" I then said to him,
*< Did you tell the truth F He said, *' Yes.'' '^ Then,'' I said, " no {larm
will come of it." But they are all afraid of lawyers, because in Mexico
a lawyer is called huisaheroj which means the scratching noise of the
pen ; and so he was always afraid to go into a court, and it would be a
very easy matter to trip him up.

By Mr. Wilson :

Q. Well, yon regard him A. As an honest man.

Q. As a faithful, honest man? — A. I traveled all over that country
with that one man, through the mountains, everywhere, when people
said : ^^ Look out he will rob you." He never took a cent from me, and
in danger always stood by me.

Q. And he is a man you would rely upon ? — A. Yes ; and when we
were attacked by robbers and the rest of them left me he stood by me.

Q. And anything he wonld say you would rely upon as being truth-
fiUt— A. Yes.

Q. And if he swore to a thing yon would have no hesitation in be-
lieving itt — A. No; and I offered to bring him to this country with me.

Q. During howmany years was Aralos with you Y — A. Five years and
two months; and he came out in the boat with me as far as he could
wade.

Q. How soon after you went there did you get acquainted with him ? —
A. I found him there.

Q. At the mines Y — A. At the hacienda, in the same capacity for my
predecessor, and he recommended him to me. He said, ^^This is my
extra>ardinarie confidential man, moyoP

Q. When did you leave Mexico t — ^A. I n 1875.



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712 THE LA ABBA SILVER MINING COMPANY.

Q. What time in 1875 f~ A. I think it was in September; the middle
or latter part of September.

Q. Was the Darango mine in operation when you left ? — ^A. Yes.

Q. Was the company that you went out for still operating it f — A.
Yes; I turned it over to my successor.

Q. And does that company continue to operate itt — ^A. They are
working it there to-day.

Q. They work it there still t — A. Yes.

Q. Why did you go from Durango f — A. I came out of Mexico on
crutches and staid in San Francisco until I got well.

Q. I just simply don't care anything about only where you went. —
A. Yes.

Q. How long did you stay in San Francisco? — ^A. Through October.

Q. Where did you go then t — A. General Bosecrans sent for me to
come up to Indian Canon.

Q. In a mining operation t — A. X^*

Q. flow long did you stay there t — A. A couple of years, if I recollect
aright. It might have been a year and a half or two years.

Q. How long did you stay up In that mine? — A. Istaidinapartof 1875
and I don't recollect bow long in 1876.

Q. Well, when did you go back to San Francisco, if you went at all ? —
A. I did not go back to San Francisco from there, I went to Ward Dis-
trict.

Q. How long did you stay there? — A. I put up a $20 stamp-mill there.

*Q. Well, I did not ask that. — A. I say 1 don't know how long; long
enough to put up a mill.

Q. Then where did you go from there? — A. I went back to the Com-
stock and went to work.

Q. How long did you stay there ? — ^A. I was in their employ both
thefe and at the refinery for more than a year.

Q. And from there where did you go? — ^A. I went to Arizona to put
up a $20- stamp mill and ran it.

Q. That came up to what date? — ^A. Oh, I don't recollect.

Q. What year ? — A. I think it was 1878. I will not be sure,

Q. Now tell us who first called your attention to this matter of the
testimony that was used in this case and purporting to have been given
by you, to which your attention has been called this morning ; who
first called your attention to that? — A. A. A. Green.

Q. When?— A. In 1877.

Q. Where ? — A. At the refinery in San Francisco ; the Bonanza re-
finery.

Q. How did Mr. A. A. Green happen to bring this thing to your
attention ? — A. After work we met. It was my custom to come into
San Francisco, dress up and come in, and I met him and we sat down
in the Oosmopolitan Hotel. He had been in Mexico many years and
knew that I had been there, and we had relations in this Oandelario
business ; so that we were acquaintances. He said^in speaking of

Q. Just wait. Before you come to what he said 1 want to know first
how you came in contact with him in San Francisco ? — A. Accidentally.

Q. Did he seek an interview with you or you with him ? — A. No, sir;
it was accidental.

Q. Where did you meet him first? — A. I met him in the street.

Q. And what occurred between >ou and him in the street? — A. I
don't recollect whether in the street or the hotel } whether I had left
tiie street and gone into the hotel; or what not; but I recollect that he



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THE LA ABBA SILVER MINING COMPANY. 713

said to me, ^^ Yoa gave testimony in the La Abra case?" I said^ ^^ I
presume I did. I gave testimony to General Adams." '^ Tes," he said»
^^ yon did." He asked me what was the parport of my evidence. I
told him that I testified that I had taken down machinery and moved
it over to San Dimas and used it.

Q. Wellt — A. He then said, ^< Adams told me;" he said, "you got
Dahlgren's testimony, did yout" "Yes," said the general, "and it
cost us a good round sum, too," oi words to that effect.

Q. That is what Green told you t — A. That is what Green told me.

Mr. Lines. That Adams told him.

By Mr. Wilson :

Q. Greentoldyouthat Adams told him that? — A. Yes. Green asked
me, " Did you do thatt " I don't know whether I said he was a liar or
not, but I denied it flatly there.

Q. And it was not true, either, was it T — ^A. It was not true ; no, sir.

Q. Well, did Mr. Green then proceed to tell you what you had testi-
fied to in your deposition, so far as your deposition showed? — ^A. No,
sir. I did not want to hear any more, and I don't know that he knew
or that he did not.

Q. Did he tell you what his business was out there? — A. No, sir.

Q. Is that all the conversation you had with him ? — ^A. I asked him
where Adams was ; where I could find Adams and confront him.

Q. Well, now, that is all that occurred between you and Green ? — A.
Oh, we sat there for half an hour or an hour and chatted, but that is all
that I recollect.

Q. He did not tell you anything about what was in your deposition? —
. A. No, sir.

Q. What? — ^A. You mean the sum and substance?

Q. Yes. — A. He said that I had sworn for Adams ; that I had testi-
fied for Adams.

Q. That is all he said ?— A. Yes.

Q. He did uot tell you what was in your deposition, did he ? — A. He
asked me what I had stated. I told you that I said that I had testi-
fied that I took down the mill.

Q. Exactly ; you told us that already. — A. Yes ; I told you that.

Q. Yes ; but did he tell you what was in your deposition ? — ^A« He
told me words to that effect that Adams bad said that I had sworn. He
said, " Is that all you stated ? " I said, " Yes." " Why," he said, " your
testimony is very voluminous," or words to that effect. " You have a
big testimony there, and you testified for Adams." I said, " I did not
know m3' testimony would help Adams, and told him so," and I said;
" I told Adams my testimony would not be of any benefit to him."

Q. Did he tell you what your deposition, as it was used before the
commission, was? — ^A. Only that I had testified in favor of Adams; I
bad stated that those were valuable properties.

Q. WeU, he told you that, dfd he?— A. Yes.
, Q. Then he knew what was in your deposition, did he ? — A. I pre-
sume he did; I did not ask him.

Q. Then he went on to tell you all about what was in your deposi-
tion, did he not? — A. No ; he just told me the sum and substance; did
not say anything about my name or what I said in reference to my
father, but simply that my testimony was voluminous and was in favor
of Adams.

Q. And that is all he told you ? — ^A. And that he had bought me for
a good round sum.



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714 THE LA ABRA SILVEB MININO COMPANY.

Q. Yes, he told yoa thatf — A. Yes ; and that ended the talk aboat
that, becaase I was not in a hnmor to continue it.

Q. Now, you have got a very good memory Was there anything
else that happened between yon and Oreen at that timet — ^A. No, sir;
I don't recollect. We went ont and took a drink.

Q. Oh, I don't care anything aboat that.— A. Well.



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