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Q. Who comi)osed the party that went out from Mazatlan to Tayol-
tita, the hacieuida! — A. Well, it was Mr. Bartholow, Mr. Hardy, Mr.
Griffith, and myself, and there were some servants along, I think ; we
bad some guides, mozos, they call them out there.

Q. I suppose you went out on mules! — A. On mules; yes, sir.

Q. When you got there, did you find any work going on at the mines,
or hacienda!— A. There was no work in the La Abra mine going on at

Q. Was there any going on at Tayoltita ! — A. Yes, sir ; Mr. Don
Juan Castillo de Valle had some mines there, a number of them.

Q. Were those mines afterwards included in your purchase ! — A. We
bought of him those mines. They were not included in the purchase
of Hardy, nothing to do with that; they were a separate purchase.

Q. What mines did Hardy own or profess to own when you got
there ! — A. I don't think any except the main La Abra mine.

Q. Do you recollect the area of mining territory that was included in
his denunciation ! — A. No, I do not. I don't know that I ever knew.
I suppose just as much as he wanted.

Q. He had no patent, had he, for the lands!— A. I don't think that
is the way it is done there.

Q. No ; it is done by denunciation. — A. I think so ; I am not familiar.

Q- Did yon see any mark on the surface of the area that was em-
braced within the La Abra mine proi>er! — A. Well, 1 saw you could
see the vein.

Q. No, I am not speaking of that. I am talking about the surveys
on the face of the earth.— A. Oh, no. He had this plan of working of
Mr. Weidner, but I did not see the metes and bounds, that 1 recollect
of now.

Q. You did not make any examination of the lines on the face of the
earth to see what was included in the area of the La Abra denuncia-
tion !— A. No, I did not. I don't know whether it was 1 mile square or
100 miles square.

Q. You don't know anything about that! — A. No, sir.

Q. Well, you paid Mr. Hardy, or the persons he represented, how
much; $22,0001 — A. I think that was the amount.

Q. For the La Abra opening ! — A. Yes, sir.

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Q. No work was being done in that when yon got there at all t— A.
No. sir.

Q. Then it was Mr. Don Oastilio de Yalle yon bought the other mines
firomf — A. YeS| sir.

Q, How many did you buy from him !— A. Now I can not tell ; there
was quite a number of them.

Q. Well, I will call over some. El Gristo; did you buy that from
him f — ^A. Yes, sir.

Q. La Luz f — A. Yes, sir.

Q. The Arrayan t — A. Yes, sir.

Q. And then the Bartholow f — A. No ; that was a separate thing ;
that had nothing to do with it ; that was not in mind at all.

Q. £>id you buy more than three mines of de Yalle t — ^A. I think three ;
I don't remember, but they were all in this mountain.

Q. You bought the mines he was working t — A. Yes ; the mines he
was working, and I think there was some Guadaloupe. He had some
stock in that that was thrown in in the trade.

By Senator Dolph :
Q. Was the Guadaloupe stock thrown in in the purchase of the La
Abra or of the mines you bought of de Valle ! — ^A. In the mines we
bought from de Valle.

By the Chairman :

Q. What did you give de Valle for all of these mines T — A. I think
the price was $50,000.

Q. Fifty thousand dollars for them f — A. Yes, sir.

Q. And $22,000 makes $72,000 yon expended for the mines f— A.
Yes ; that is the amount I remember. .

Q. Was that all paid up in money at the time ! — A. Well, yes, it was ;
the $22,000 paid to Hardy was upon the same basis that others had got
their stock. It was considered money, yes, sir. Hardy did not count
over that money to me and I did not hand him back the stock which
issued to him, you know, in consideration.

Q. Did he take stock in that company for the value of his mine,
$22,000!— A. Yes, sir.

Q. He did not get any money, then t— A. He did not get any cash.

Q. He got $22,000 stock!— A. Yes, sir.

Q. And no money was paid him! — A. I do not remember any money
paid him.

Q. Well, the $50,000 what you paid Valle was paid in cash, was itf —
A. Paid in gold.

Q. While you were out there! — A. I think not. I think it was paid
by General Bartholow afterwards. -My recollection of it was that it
was paid through the Bank of California.

Q. Then drafts were drawn upon that bank in his favon and he
cashed them!— A. I think so, and it was paid after I got to New York
or before ; I don't remember which now.

Q. Did you witness any of de Valleys workings there! — A. Oh, yes ;
de Valle had piles of silver when I was there; lots of bars of silver.
I don't know, may be some tons; how much or of what value I do not
know. I don't remember; but it was piled up in quite a large amount,
and, I judge, some thousands of dollars. How much I don't know.

Q. Was this ore that de Valle was working was what was called galena
ore! — A. I don't know about galena.

Q. Any lead about it! — A. No, sir; I think not I think what is
called down there '^rebellious ore."

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Q. I know, but that is a diflEereot thing ; no lead in the mine that you
saw ? — A. I don't think so. I saw none.

Q. Did yon see do Yalle work out any of these bars! — A. I think
there was some what they call benefleiating process going on at the time.

Q. The process of benefleiating was going on at that time? — A. 7es,
there was some there going on before we came, but I did not see his
arrastra, a big stone something like a sngar-loaf, bigger atone end than
the other, and that goes aronnd.

Q. Mules pnll it aronnd t — ^A. I think he had that run by water, bnt
^ I did not see that in operation.

By Mr. Dolph:
Q. Was that the only means he had of crashing ores f — A. That was
the only means I saw there. I think that was the plan he adopted.

By the Ohatrman :

Q. Where did he bring his ores from that yon saw there on the
patio T-'A. They bronght them from his mines there.

Q. Which one of the mines, El Gristo or La Lnz t — A. I don't know.

Q. You don't know which ! — A. No, sir ; I do not I think probably
he was working in the La Lnz.

Q. Do you know what mine he got these bars of stiver ont of that
you speak off — A. I don't know ; he may have got them from that.

Q. Ton don't know anything about that T — A. No, sir.

Q. Did yon not inform yourself about it f — A. Only what he told me.

Q. That is good information ; what did he tell you T — ^A. I think he
told me this silver that was there was the La Luz. I think that was
the nearest mine at hand. My recollection is that that was probably
nearest the works.
p Q. The patio T — A. Yes, sir.

Q. How far was that from the patio T — A. Well, may be a mile, may
be less.

Q. tip a high mountain t — A. Oh, yes, the mountain was high.

Q. Steep f — A. Pretty steep, not as steep as it was higher up though.
It was like a sugar loaf.

Q. flow flEur from the La Abra f — A. I should judge 2 miles.

Q. Welly up a high steep mountain f — A. Up on top of that high
su^r loaf.

Q. How far off was the El Gristo f — A. Well, that was nearer to the
La Abra, lower down the mountain, some distance down ; how far I do
not now recoUect

Q. The Arrayan T->-A. I think that was lower down. I am not certain
though. I am not certain as to the position of these mines.

Q. Were there any nearer than a mile to the patio f — A. I think so.
I think some of them were not that distance. Perhaps it may have
been a mile by the way they zigzag going along, but not a mile, I
should think, in a direct course.

Q. While yon were there did yon go down in the La Abra mine f —
A. Y^ sir.

Q. How often!— A. I think we went twice.
^ Q. Did you see any work done f— A. No, sir; no work in there. By

the way, they had a hammer and chisel and they got out some ores.

Q. Did you see that donef — A. I did; yes, sir.

Q. That ore yon brought back to New York did you not f — A. I think
we had that benefldated at the mines ; that is, worked over down there,
beaten up.

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Q. Well, you brought some ore back with you to New York, did yoa
not! — A. I brought some silver back with me, a little silver brick, 2 by
4 or 5 inches, probably, just a little sample that was probably taken
out ; may be some of the richest ore was made into that brick.

Abr. DoLPH. Did I understand the witness to say that he saw the
specimen taken from the La Abra with a chisel f

The Chaibman. Yes^ he says the specimen taken out of the La Abra
was beneflciated at the patio.

The Witness. I think so now. I do not know whether I brought
back any to New York; but my recollection is not distinct on that.

By the Chaibman :

Q. We will call your attention to that a little later. How long did
you remain at the village of Tayoltitaf — A. Well, sir, it must have
been several weeks.

Q. Informing yourself, of course, as to the condition of aflhirsT— ^A.
Yes, trying to.

Q. During that time of several weeks you were there did De Yalle
make any run of metal at all T — A. I don't think he did.

Q. Did not clean up his patio and melt it and wash it f — A. I do not

Q. Do you know what the process was when those ores are benefi-
ciated, whether they are then afterwards treated with heat or whether
by quicksilver t — ^A. I think the ore he claimed to be working then was
beneflciated without

Q. If any came out in a mat or mass that would have to be melted of
course? — ^A. O, yes; they had to melt it.

Q. These bars you say you saw lying there, were they what you call
mats or mass or beneflciated silver, or were they pure silver f — A. I
don't know how pure ; he told me they were pure silver, except that
they contained — when he had them assayed, or divided, or parted, what-
ever it was that had to done to mint it — he told me they ran from 12 to
15 per cent ; probably 15 per cent, gold ; 15 per cent, value ; not in weight,
of course. Whether that was true or not I don't know.

Q. On what part of the patio did he keep these barsT — A. He kept
them in his store-room. He had a store that was, may be, 80 or a 100
feet long; I don't remember now; quite a considerable house, and in
that he had these stackR of silver.

Q. Did they have a bright, lustrous appearance like silver, or did
they look dark T — A. Well, I don't think they were particularly brif^ht.
I don't remember that they shone like a new dollar or anything of that
sort; I don't think they were.

Q. Do you know the distinction between pure silver and the mat
from which silver is obtained by smelting? — A. No; I should think
that depended on the quality of the ore ; I don't know.

Q. You don't know the difference between the mat, as it is called, and
the silver barf — A. 1 don't think I have seen the mat, as you deBcribe
it. He said it was valuable ; I don't know. I suppose it was such as
he had been always taking from there.

Q. Now, during the flve or six weeks you staid A. I did not

stay there flve or six weeks. I staid several weeks. I don't now re-
member, probably three.

Q. Well, during the three weeks, and after you bought out I>e Valle,
did he work up the beneflciated ores he had on the patio !— A. I don't
think he worked any whilst I was there.

Q. Well, did you work them up or have them worked upf — A^ No,

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Q. He did not turu over any beneficiated ores to you witb the sale of
the mine! — A. Not to my knowledge; I have no account of it.

Q. Well, 1 suppose if you had worked it up you would have brought
it with you f — A. Yes, sir.

Q. He moved off, did he! — A. I don't know whether he moved off.

Q. He ceased working after you purchased the mine ? — A. I presume

Q. Did he have any houses besides the storehouse you speak off — ^A.
Yes, sir; the square, the paved square, and the walls around it, but there
was no dwelling that I know of, except what was connected with that
store-house and rooms there, dining-rooms and where the men slept.
He lived outside in the village while I was there.

Q. Where did the Mexican operatives that worked in that mine
live! — A. They lived in the town there.

Q. Tayoltita! — A. Yes; it was a little village.

Q. A little Mexican village! — A. Yes, sir.

Q. They had their own little adobe houses, I suppose, and lived in
them. Well, you did not buy the town ! — A. Well, 1 don't know that
we did.

Q. Yon did not buy any houses of those Mexicans, I suppose ! — A.
Oh, no; we did not get any rent for them.

Q. They were the proprietors, I suppose, of their own little huts!—
A. I don't know how it is, whether there is any title to them or just
squatted in them as the people do in New York out on the rocks.

By Mr. Dolph :

Q. I would like to know what time it was you left the hacienda on
your trip! — A. 1 think it must have been towards the end of June; I
don't remember.

Q. June, 1865 !— A. Yes. sir.

Q. Did General Bartholdw go back with you ! — A. No ; Mr. Bartho-
low was left there. I think he came back to Mazatlan with me.

Q. Now, who piloted you into the La Abba mine— Mr. Hardy ! — A.
Mr. Hardy and some Mexicans that we had there, guides and mozos,
as they call them there.

Q. Did you go to the bottom of the cut or opening! — A. Yes; we
wi'Ut down to the bottom.

Q. What was the condition down there; did you find a clean opening
or did it appear as if the sides had fallen in ! — A. They told me down
there— I don't know whether it was true or not — that the pillars had been
cut out and the debris had fallen to the bottom of the mine. This was
a great opening; in some places I suppose it was 15 or 16 feet wide.

Q. How high from the bottom of the opening to the top of the open-
ing; was it open through f— A. Oh, yes; clear up to the very tiptop.

Q. The vein had been excavated clear ux>m the top of the mountain ! —
A. Yes; they were right in on the vein.

Q. Now, what were you going to say about the pillars! — A. They told
me that they were formerly pillars, or masses of ore, left in between to
kind of hold the stone.

Q. Well, these masses ran horizontally between the walls of rock ! —
A. Yes, sir ; and those had been worked up and disappeared. A good
part of it had dropped down in this hole.

Q. Who was it that used the chisel ; chiseled off this specimen ! — A.
I don't remember whether it was Griffith or whether it was Hardy ; it
was done by one of the two. I didn't do it.

Q. Who was present; was Hardy there!— A. Hardy was present,

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Gnffith was present, I was present, and Mr. Bartholow was present,
and Mr. Weidner, I think, was present.

Q. Then it was done ander the direction of some one ^ it was done by
H^y, I suppose f — A. I don't know whether it was done under the
direction of Hardy or Griffith or Weidner. He was the man who bad
the plan of the mines.

Q. He was the metallurgist that you mentioned in the early portion
of your testimony t — A.. Yes, sir.

Q. Now what I desire to know is, what portion of the opening was
this portion of the pillar chiseled off T- A. There was quite a number
of pillars. I think we took from several places ; quite a number of
places where these pillars had been, sticking out a foot or more.

Q. The old vein t — A. The old vein : yes, sir.

Q. Did you go down to the bottom 7 — A. That was covered with rub-
bish ; we could not get at it.

By the Chairman:

Q. Now, when you came off you left General Bartholow there t — A.
Yes, sir.

Q. Was he authorized immediately to go to work mining f — A. That
was the expectation ; as I understand, he went to work. He went to
San Francisco; but I don't remember about that.

Q. Now, had this stock of $150,000 or $160,006 that you mention been
paid in before you went to Mexico or afterwards f — A. No ; it was after
I returned from Mexico. These gentlemen were there and they had
sent us out to Mexico to report, and they were ready to act on the report

Q. Had the company been organized as an incorporation before you
went to Mexico or after you came back f — A. After I came back.

Q. It was organized after you came back?— A. Yes, sir.

Q. tio General Bartholow when he first remained there was not remain-
ing as the agent of the company ?— A. No, because there was no com-
•I»any formed.

Q. Who furnished the $60,000 that you paid to de Valle for these
mines that you bought from him! — A. I furnished it myself.

Q. At the time? — A. Yes, sir.

Mr. MoDoNAiiD. Fifty thousand dollars. The bargain with de Valle,
as I understand it and. remember, was $50^000.

By the Chairman :

Q. I misunderstood you. I thought it was $60,000 — ^very good. You
furnished the money youi-seU* f — A. I drew on my house in New York
through the Bank of California for $50,000.

Q. So that was your own money you paid there at that time ? — ^A.
Yes, sir.

Q. That was reimbursed to you afterwards when you ^ot up the
stock subscription T — A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did Bartholow pay any part of that t — A. He did not pay any
part of that. He paid his share, as he informed me, through the San
Francisco banking house.

Q. His $10,000, then, was paid in money f — A. It was paid in cash.

Q. Not in salary!— A. Not in salary.

By Mr. Dolph :
Q. It is carried in as an expense of the mine, is it not! — A^ That is
carried in the expense. He said he got it in a banking house in San
Francisco. Mr. Bartholow, I will say, was connected with a bank in
Baint Louis.

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Q. So that will appear in the accoant of expenses of the mine f — ^A.
I presume so.

Q. Were there any others paid the sabsoription in the same way f — ^A.
I think so. I think Mr. Griffith did.

Q. Was there a Mr. Collins also f — A. Oh, he was in Kew York. Mr.
OoUins was president of the company.

Q. Who was superintendent of the mines t — A. Mr. Bartholow was

Q. Welly who was head miner f — A. I don't know. I see a man
named Oullins was there. I don't know whether he was head miner
or not

Q. I mean Oullins, not Oollins. — ^A. Well, I don't know anything
about him. He was out there, but I don't remember him being there at
that time.


Q. When you came back to Mazatlan to go on to New York again
you brought with you some specimens of the silver, a brick. You said
you brought a brick. — A. Yes; in my pocket.

Q. Did you get that from de Yallef — ^A. No; I think that was made
there on the mine ; beaten up probably by hammers or stones, or some-
thing of that sort ; whatever way it was done, that is my impression

Q. Did you bring any specimen of ore with you that you got out of
the La Abra opening f — A. I think that I tested it there by Mr. Weid-
ner, or some person who claimed to be competent to do that, but I don't
recollect. I may have brought some specimens of ore to New York.
It is very possible that I did ; I believe probably I did, but I am not
clear as to that.

Q. While you were out there did you go down into the La Luz f — A.
Yes, sir.

Q. And the El Oristo mine t— A. We did; went down into all of
them, I think.

Q. The Bartholow mine was not opened then t— A. I never knew
anything about that. That was a matter that Bartholow discovered.
Afterwards that turned out to be of no value.

Q. But after you got back to New York you went ahead and organ-
ized the company f — A. We did.

Q. And you were chosen as treasurer t — A. No; Sidney Shackelford,
I think, was the first treasurer.

Q. And then you succeeded himt — ^A. Yes; he went to Missouri,
and it devolved upon me.

Q. What was your salary as treasurer ; how much did the company
agree to allow yout— A. Well, it was talked over there. It was to be
$2,000 a year, I think.

Q. Was there noresolution of the board fixing your salary t— A. I don't
know but what there was. I don't now remember that.

Q. What was the salary of the book-keeper t— A. I don't remember

Q. He had a salary, I suppose, of course t— A. I suppose the secre-
tary had a salary. ^ ,. t. ^

Q. I mean the secretary who was bookkeepert— A. He was the book-
keeper; yes sir.

Q. Did the president get any salary t— A. The president never was
paid any salary ; he was to have a salary.

Q. How much t— A. I believe $2,000.

S. Doc. 231, pt 2 10

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Q. Was that yoar last visit to Mexico f — That is the only one.

Q. How loDg after the company was organized before yon took charge
of it as general financial mana^r in I^ew York f — A. I don't remember.
Mr. Heam was the first president, and Sidney Shackelford was the
treasurer and secretary I think ; I don't remember about it now. I had
something to do with the advising, etc.

Q. This money for stock was paid in very soon after your return t —
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you have a meeting of the stockholders, to explain to them
the situation in Mexico f — A. Yes, sir; those who were there; just a
meeting there. I explained it to them.

Q. Did you get any permit in Mexico from any of the authorities,
civil or military, to open this mine or to conduct the business out
there f — A. I don't remember any.

Q. Was the country much in agitation when you went there over the
war that was progressing t — A. Well, I do not think much, in that par-
ticular section. It was a mighty out-of the- way place; an ignorant kind
of people out there. I don't think they cared much for govemment or
anything else.

Q. They are not very loyal to any government, are they t — A. I don't
know about that

Q. Is the country infested with robbers — ^banditti t — ^A. I suppose,
more or less.

Q. You heard of them out there f — A. I did hear of them occasionally.

Q. Were there any American companies in the vicinity of the haci-
enda that you bought, mining for silver or gold, when you got there ! —
A. There was; at San Dimas, I think, about 10 miles off.

Q. Do you know whether that company is still working there nowf —
A. I do not.

Q. Do you know how long it had been there t — A. I do not.

Q. That was called the Durango Silver Mining Company! — A. I
don't remember. Mr. Rice, I think, was the superintendent.

Q. That was at San Dimas t— A. That was at San Dimas, which was
really kind of the head of the district. I think that was probably the
head of the mining department, if there is such a thing there.

Q. The Mexican department of mines f — A. I don't know; I woald
not say. My idea is that that was the chief place; where the alcalde,
or whatever there was, lived.

The committee adjourned until 12 o'clock October 3, 1888.

Senate op the United SiiiTbs,

Committee on Foreign Relations,

Washinfftatij D. 0., October 3, 1888.
The committee met pursuant to adjournment. Present, Senators Mor-
gan (chairman), Dolph, and Brown ; Hpn. Joseph O. McDonald, Hon.
Samuel Shellabarger, and John !N^. Staples, esq., of counsel, and Sam-
mer Stow Ely, secretary of the La Abra Silver Mining Company, and
Hon. John W. Foster and Bobert P. Lines, esq., representing the Gov-
ernment of Mexico.

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By the Chairman :

Q. When we adjourned I believe I had asked you whether you took
back with you from Mexico to New York auy specimens of the ores of
those mines t — A. I have been thinking about that since you asked that
question. It has been brought to my mind, and I remember now that
I did. I remember it, too, particularly, from having read over Colonel
De LagnePs testimony, in which he says he saw a specimen in my office ;
and I now remember that we did probably bring back specimens from
all the mines^ at least I did.

Q. Were they rich specimens 1 — A. Tes; supposed to be.

Q. Who selected themt — A. Well, I don't know precisely ; we all
probably had a hand in it — Mr. Bartholow and myself and Mr. Griffith
and Mr. Weidner and whoever were there. We were all together there,
and while I was not an expert myself, I suppose that I may have sug-
gested that such a piece was a rich piece. I do not remember that,

Q. Did yon have any of these specimens analyzed at the mines f — A.
I think we had ; that is, pounded up and analyzed.

Q. Do you recollect what the yield was t — A. No, not particularly;

Online LibraryUnited States. Congress. Senate. Committee on ForeCompilation of reports of Committee ... 1789-1901, First Congress, first session, to Fifty-sixth Congress, second session .. → online text (page 20 of 156)