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then f — A. I did not ; it was a friendly suit.

Q. Who signed thatT — ^A. I don't remember now ; it was twenty years

Q. That may be ; do you remember ever signing a note for that com-
pany f — A. Which t

Q. The La Abra Company. — ^A. I don't recollect ; I have no distinct
recollection about it.

Q. Well, if you did not sign It, who didf — A. It may have been signed
by me as treasurer, or by Mr. Worthington. It would naturally be signed
by me as treasurer, or by Mr. GoUins as president.

By Senator Brown:
Q. Who was the president of the company t — A. Mr. Gollins.
Q. Is it not usual for the president to sign the note t — A. I don't
know that it is. Whatever was customary was probably done.

By the Chairman :

Q. You state you have no distinct recollection of ever signing those
notes f — ^A. I do say that 1 have no distinct recollection whether it was
signed by me, or by Mr. Collins, or by Mr. Worthington. It is very
probable it was signed by me as treasurer. I don't know. I have no
distinct recollection.

Q. In whose name did you draw upon— Ralston, or the Bank of Cal-
ifornia—when you drew these moneys t — A. When I was in California f

Q. No ; vhen you checked out these moneys, or did you check any
money out of this bank in favor of the agents of the mines f — ^A. I
don't think I ever did anything of that sort.

Q. They drew and you honored the drafts f — A. Yes, sir.

Q. And sent the money then to meet them t — A. No, sir ; they drew
and got the money from the bank, and then the bank sent on Bar-

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^tholow's drafts or De Lagnel's, or whoever they were, and when they
appeared at the counter I paid them.

Q. Paid them in New York! — A. Yes ; paid them in New York.

Q. Yon did not send any money to the Bank of California then t — ^A.
Oh, no.

Q. The checks were forwaixied to New York and naid there t — A.
Yes ; that is my recollection.

Q. Yon say this was a friendly suit to get judgment against the com-
pauy f — A. That was the idea of patting the matter in a shape of a jndg-
meut; that was the understanding at the time. I think that was the
idea of it.

Q. That was in Juue, 1867 1 — A. I don't remember the date. What-
ever is there in that book, I suppose, is the date.

Q. Where' was Exali at that time t — A. I don't know. Mr. Exall,
when he returned to New York, at whatever time he did, was no longer
in the employ of the company.

Q. Well, he was writing you letters then, in November, 1867 1 — Weil,
he was in Mexico then, probi^bly.

Q. He was in Mexico t — A. I suppose so. You can see by his letters ;
I don't remember the time.

Q. The last letter in this book by him is January 24, 1868»— A. Well,
if that is the case he was in Mexico.

Q. January 24, 1868, he wrote to you from Mazatlan. Bo he was in
Mexico conducting the mines, while you were all getting judgment
against the company ? — A. He must have been in Mexico at the time.

Q. What was your object in getting that judgment against the com
pany; what did you want to do with it — bankrupt itt — A. No; we
wanted to preserve the matter as a judgment, to put it in the shape of
a judgment, that it might be acknowledged.

Q. Are there any other creditors than the gentlemen who subscribed
the money t — ^A. Not that I know of.

Q. Just all in the company f — A. Yes, sir.

Q. No outside creditors that you know oft — A. No, sir.

Q. Did the Bank of Galifornia have any debts against yon f — ^A. Not
that I know of.

Q. Did they not sue upon the drafts t— A. The draft of De Lagnel was
protested ; it was not paid by me.

Q. Was it not paid by the Bank of Oalifomiaf — A. I presume so.

Q. Did they not suet — A. Yes, sir.

Q. Didn't they get a judgment! — A. No; they did not.

i^. Why was that! — A. I don't know.

Q. They brought suit, thought — A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where did they bring that t— A. In New York City.

Q. Before or after you brought this friendly suit t — ^A. I don't re-

Senator Dolph. The record will show they failed to prove the cor-
poration under the laws of the State of Galifornia. I would like to ask
a question, too, in order that the witness may refresh his recollection.
Mr. Garth, I wish you would examine that copy of the complaint in the
case of Garth against the La Abra Silver Mining Company, and then
refresh your recollection, if you are able to, so as to be able to state
whether there were any other claims against the company for money
advanced to it not included in that suit, when you are called upon the
witness stand again.

A. I do not know how I could do that. My recollection of it is that

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there Hiight have been some other claims that were not presented^ but
it was all by parties ip interest here, saoh as Mr. Ham or myself or Mr.
Nackolls, or somebody else that I don't remember.

Q. Well, Mr. Nnckolls, Mr. Heam, and yonrself all took notes and
all for the same amount and assigned those notes to Mr. Grarth in order
that the sait might be brought by him. Did you take a note from the
company at that time for the fall amount due you I — A. No ; it might
have been so. I forgot to mention there was Mr. Sweeney, of Glasgow,
was a large stockholder, and I think it very likely that he made some
advances to the company, though I do not now recollect.

Q. You do not recollect whetiber he made any advances to the com-
pany or not t — ^A. No : I do not.

Q. What had been done with the money subscribed and paid in on
account of stock at the time you employed De Lagnel in New Yorkf —
A. The money had been used up in the purchase of the mines, and in
the development and patting up of the machinery, and getting oat
ores, etc

Q. How much was due Mr. Bartholow t — A. Mr. Bartholow or Mr. De
Lagnel t

Q. No ; I mean at the time yon employed De Lagnel ; how much money
had the company on hand at that timef — ^A. 1 think when Mr. Shackel-
ford went away Mr. Bartholow had drawn for a sum sufficient to very
nearly exhaust what had been paid in on subscription. I think there
was very little left.

Q. Do you recollect whether you had as much as $7,000 1 — ^A. It was
probably $5,000 or $6,000. I don't recollect. I knew there was some

Q. Had the money been used for any other purpose except to pay for
tbe mines, $50,000, and thh money Mr. Bartholow had at the mines t— A.
Not a penny that I know of.

Q. Was there any additional money expended in the mines except
that which was paid on the drafts of Mr. De Lagnel and to Mr. De
Lagnel on his salary after he returned t — A. Yes; we paid Mr. Exall.

Q. Did Mr. Exall have his salary after he returned f — ^A. He was paid
after his return; yes, sir.

Q. How long after bis return f— A. I don't remember, but probably a
week or month. He was paid by Mr. Oollins and myself, and several
others, putting our hands in our pockets and paying him.

Q. You don't recollect when f — ^A. No ; it was not long after his re-
turn. It might have been a week or ten days, or it may have been a
month; I don't remember. Probably some of the people were not
handy ; might have been out of town; and so we may not have got
together enough to just see what we could do and pay him up.

Q. Do you recollect how much it was f — A. I don't remember now.

Q. About t— A. No.

Q. Did it amount to $5,000 1— A. Oh^ no.

Q. Three thousand dollars? — A. I think not; no, sir.

Q. Two thousand dollars! — ^A. It may have been as much as $2,000,
but I know it was not anything like as much as $5,000 or $3,000.

The committee acUourned until 11 o^clo(:k, October 4, 1888.

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Sbnatb of THB Unitbd Statbs,
• oommittbe on foreign relations,

WashingtoHj D. 0., October 4, 1888.
The subcommittee met poisaant to adjournment. Present: Sena-
tors Morgan (chairman), Dolph,and Brown; Hon. Joseph O. McDonald
and Hon. Samuel Shellabarger, of counsel ; Sumner Stow Ely, secretary
of the La Abra Silver Mining Company, and Hon. John W. Foster and
J Robert B. Lines, representing the Gk>vemraent of Mexico.

DAVID J. OABTH— Chmtinned.

The Ohaibman. The secretary will read the question that was pend
ing at the time of adjournment.
The stenographer read the question as follows :

By Bfr. Dolph :
Q. Mr. Garth, I wish yoa would exumine that oopy of the oomplaint in the oaee of
Garth v$. The La Abra SilveT Mining Company, and then refresh your reoollection, if
yon are able to, so as to be able to state wnether there were any other claims against
the company for moneys advanoed to it, not included in that soit, when yon are
oaUed apoo the witness stand again.

By the Ohaibman:

Q. Hare you refreshed your recollection about itf — A. I have
thought over the matter some. I recollect none except the claim of non •
payment to the Bank of Oalifornia. The claim, $5,000, was protested.

Q. All the balance of the claims, then, were included in that judg-
ment! — A. I think so, up to that time.

Q. Does that include your salary, or was your salary paidt — A. No;
I don't think anybody actually was ever paid a dollar of salary.

Q. Did the judgment include any dues; anything due you for salary,
or anybody else! — A. No, sir; it was simply for moneys advanced by
the individuals on account of drafts drawn from Mexico; I think all
through the Bank of Galifomia.

Q. I suppose that the book-keeper in New York was paid t — ^A. I don't
think Mr. Wo^thington ever got a dollar of salary; I don't think any
of us ever got a dollar of salary.

Q. I believe you mentioned that salaries had been stipulated t — A.
Yes, sir; it was stipulated that they were to have, I think, $2,000 a
year; the president, the secretary, and myself.

By Senator Dolph :

Q. Was the draft on the Bank of California ever paid f* A. I don't
think it was.

Q. Can you explain how it is that three officers of the company, Mr.
Collins, and yourself, and another one, took notes on the day the suit
was brought for nineteen hundred and odd dollars, if it was not in
liquidation of salaries t — A. It was not in liquidation of salaries. It
was in liquidation of-^Itbink Mr. Collins, perhaps, it has been along time
ago and I hardly recollect — but Mr. John Garth bad paid some money
at different times and Mr. Collins had and myself, and there was a loan
made from the bank which Mr. Collins had got discounted, but it was
finally paid.

Q. The note signed by you three gentlemen f — ^A. I think it was
signed by all of us, probably Mr. Collins; I don't remember now.

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By the Ohaibman:
Q. What bank was thatt—A. I think it was the Ohatliam Bank.
Mr. Collins was a director or officer in that bank. It is his bank. The
money was raised temporarily, but it was retnmed to him, he |iayin|c
his proportion and we oars. The exact figures I do not reoollect. It
was in payment, however, of drafts paid by as.

By Senator Dolph :

Q. Ton received a communication, did yoa not, from Mr. Ezall, in
regard to the non-payment of this draft on the Bank of Oalifornia and
the efifect it had on the affairs of the company! — A. Tes, I think yoa
will find Mr. Exall wrote about it.

Q. Do you recollect whether or not Mr. Exall wrote to you for the
deeds of the mining property, saying they were necessary for use for
the Mexican officer t — A. I don't recollect particularly. I don't recol-
lect the particulars of it; he might have done so ; I think it likely he

Q. Do yoa know that if the mines are not worked and the denuncia-
tion kept up another party might denounce them at the expiration of
your license to work themf — A. I knew there was some regulation of
that sort, but as to the particulars or how it was done I have no knowl-

Q. What was the reason you did not raise the money to pay the draft
on the Bank of Oalifornia t — A. Because I had stood in the breach and
paid about as much as I intended to do.

Q. You cUd not intend to raise any more money f — ^A. That is to say
I was not going to put my hand in my pocket and pay every draft that
came after I h^ done all I agreed to.

Q. Did you know that Mr. Exall was coming to New York before he
came t — A. I dont recollect that I had any notice of his coming.

Q. Turn to page 86 of the volume you hold in your hand and read
what purports to be a letter from Mr. Gharles H. Exall, dated at ICa-
zatlan, January 24, 1868, and addressed to yourself, in which he says :

I came down to meet steamer from San Francisco, in hopes of receiving letters from
▼on: I received none, and now, being entirely out of funds and stock, and being saed
by the ag'ts from B'k of California for the payment, have to let things take their own
course, as I am UDabie longer to protect yonr int«rests here. In previous letters I
have given you full and detailed accounts of aflEiurs here, and such frequent repeti-
tions 1 find useless, and will simply state that I am doing nothing whatever at the
mines, and can not until I receive monev to operate with; I havn't means to protest
now, and they are liable to be denounced at any moment. Some months since I w^rote
you for titles; the Government demanded them; they have not been received.

By December steamer I sent you a telegram from San Francisco; no reply. The
parties I sent the dispatch to in S. F'co sent it on to New York. I am owing oonaid-
erable, and no means of paving. What is your intention f Is it to let your interests
here go to the dogsf You have either to do this or send money out to protect them.
If by next steamer I receive no assistance from yon, I intend leaving for the EUust, eto.

What is your recollection about that lettert^ A. I have no reooUec-
tion of having received it.

Q. Do you recollect receiving substantially that information — ^th&t the
Bank of California was pushing its claim t — ^A. I don't recollect it.

Q. Don't you recollect getting letters from Exall saying he was oat
of money and could not go on with the business t — ^A. I don't reooUect
that letter you ask about, nor several others.

Q. Well, I ask if you recollect getting information from Mr. ESxall
that he was out of money and he could not go on with the busiiiess at
the mine unless yon sent him money f — A. I don't know. I supposed
the mill was going on, and that they would be able to benefloiate, or

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get oat silver enoagh at least to pay their expenses^ and I had strong
hopes of being able to receive enoagh to repay to the parties in New
York who had advanced this money. That was oar calcalation.

Q. Yea now swear that yoa did not receive any request from Mr. Ex-
all to send him money becaase that was necessary in order to keep ap
the business f — A. I don't remember it.

Q. Do yoa recollect of his informing yoa of his* having attempted to
negotiate a draft for $3,000 1 — A. Yes, I think there was a letter came
to that effect, bat I don't now remember the particulars of it.

By the Ohaibman :

Q. How long did Exall remain there after you wrote him the last let-
ter that yoa sent to himt — A. I don't remember. I can not recollect
the dates of all my letters or the substance of all my letters that I wrote
to Mr. Bartholow or Mr. De Lagnel or Mr. Exall: they were quite num-
erous. I can not recollect the dates of them. I know I was surprised
when Mr. Exall came back, and disappointed in the view that I had
hoped he would be able to run the thing successfully.

Q. How many months did ExaU remain there in charge of the busi-
ness that you did not hear from him t — A. I could not say ; I don't know.

Q. Was there any month t — ^A. I suppose there was; I know there was.

Q. You know there wast — A. Yes, sir.

Q. In which you did not hear from himf — ^A. Yes, sir.

Q. And during which you did not write to himt — ^A. I think it is

Q. Now was there more than a month t — ^A. I could not say.

Q. You are satisfied you say it was as much as a month ; you could
not say it was any moret — A. I could not say the time, it was a long
time; I don't recollect the particulars.

Q. When did you make up your mind you would not advance any more
money to that concern t — A. I made up my mind when these drafts
came in.

Q. What drafts t— A. The drafts of Mr. De Lagnel and of Mr. Bar-
tholow; both of them.

Q. From that time forward you intended to let the concern work
itself out if it could t — A. That was the design. I had supposed, all of
us had supposed from what we knew of the richness of the ore and the
value of it, that if we could only get the machinery started in a little
time not only would the money be found or obtained to carry it on and
develop it and cut in the adit levels which it was the design to do, but
to repay to us the drafts.

Q. Were you not informed and did you not know 'that from the time
Mr. Exall got there until he left he was not getting money out of that
business to run itt — A. No, not all the time; I didn't know as to that.

Q. How long did you know thatt — A. I don't remember, but I did
not know but what he was, as I say, getting sufficient to sustain him-
, self. Finding the thing had been delayed so much getting to work,
and that the ores they had run through were not as good as were sup-
posed, as you will see in my letters to Mr. Exall and to others, if they are
in existence, I urged upon them the policy of working as close as possi-
ble, cutting down expenses and just taking care of the property until
a better method should be found. My view was a better method should
be found of beneficiation, for I believed all the time honestly, and I be-
lieve to-day, that if those ores had been properly managed by a man
who really understood the business of mining and beneflciatingores and

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had the means to do it — the ohemical and the roasting apparatus—
they woald have been found abundantly rich ; I think so.

By Senator Bbown :

Q. What do you mean by cutting an adit level f — ^A. It was— it
takes up so much time to explain it that probably

Q. Do you mean a tunnel to strike the vein lower t — ^A. Yes; it was a
plan of Mr. Weidner.

Q. Did that apply to the La Abra alone f — A. Yes ; that was mainly
designed, but in the cutting of this adit level, as it was call* d, it was
designed to strike greatly below the lowest workings where the great
La Abra mine had been worked.

Q. So as to drain off the water if there should be any and carry out
the ore instead of carrying it up on the backs of the men t — A. Yes^ that
was the plan, and from the appearance that was shown to me that
seemed to be practicable ; and it would cut most of the mines, the La Luz,
the £1 Gristo, and others iea^ lower down than they had been worked at

By the Ohaibman :

Q. Did Ezall do any work on that tunnel f — ^A. I don't think any of
them did, but that was the design when I left. Bartholow expected to
do S0| but, as I say, the thing had cost much more money than we an-
ticipated. It was supposed when we went into this thing that $150,000
would be all the money needed to do that thing by these estimates.
We could have raised twice as much when this thing was gone into if
it had been necessary, but particularly Mr. Bartholow was very positive
that he would not want any more and objected to our making any effort
to get any more. At the time that this business was done it was done
by some friends, both of Mr. Bartholow, who were in the West, and of
myself in Ifew York there, and the thing was honestly and fairly gone
into as a business operation.

Q. Now if I understand you, you say you advised Exall that he must
cut down expenses there and work along until he could find some
better means of beneficiating the oresf — A. I think I impressed that
upon him before he went away, and I think I wrote in a general way,
that that ought to be done; advised him to do it.

Q. If yon did not know anything about the condition of the -mine,
whether it was making a living or not, why did you recommend cutting
down expenses t— A. Because when Golonc] De Lagnel came away he
told me it was necessary to cut down expenses and to keep on getting
out the richest ore and working out some, and in that way

Q. Did you have no later information aboat the progress of the work
than that Colonel De Lagnel gave yout — A. Yes, I hs^ some from Mr.
Exall. You will find that in these letters from Mr. Exall and which are

Q. Well, Exall's letters informed you that the work was not self*
sustaining, did they nott^A. Well, I don't say positively they did. He^
had some difficulty in getting along with the beneflciation of the ore,
and i was in hopes he would constantly improve upon tiiat and would
get enough to sustain him and to repay us.

Q. Did you keep up your correspondence with him to ascertain
whether he was doing that or nott — A. I think so. I tried to do so.

Q. Did you ever make any complaints of Exall that he did not inform
you of the condition of the mines f — ^A. You see my letters to him and
others asked for monthly reports, which I did not get.

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Q. Did yoa ever complain of him not making monthly reports f — A'
7on can read my letters.

Q. I want to know what yon did f — ^A. I don't know now that I did
any more than is expressed in those letters, which is my only recol-
lection. There may have been other letters but I don't now recall them.

Q. You don't remember otherwise than what you see in these letters
of expressing discontent with Exall's management or his want of suc-
cess t — A. I do not.

Q. l^ow I will get you back and ask if any money has been paid on
these judgments you obtained in New York t — ^A. Not to my knowl-

Q. Have you ever received anything from this award f — ^A. I have
received — precisely how much I don't know. When this fund was
being raised to obtain the testimony there were contributions, volun*
tai7 contributions, made up by the stockholders so far as they were
accessible, and they contributed pro rata, or whatever they chose to
do, with the understanding that the first amount, if there were any
awards at all, should be repaid for that purpose. I think that I re-
ceived on that account probably fourteen, fifteen, or sixteen hundred
dollars. I don't remember; it was a small sum.

Q. Did you receive as much as yon contributed t — ^A. No, sir.

Q. Do you mean you did not receive as much as you contributed
towards the expenses of the suitf — ^A. I did not receive as much as I

By the Ohaibman:

Q. How much did vou contribute! — A. I don't remember. It was in
the neighborhood of f 2,000, perhaps over.

Q. Have you any papers to show what you contributed f — ^A. Well,
there may be some memorandum at home.

Q. Don't you know how much is due you on that account f — A. I
don't remember. From recollection I could not state.

Q. You don't know how much money you advanced for that pur-
pose! — A. I don't remember the exact sum.

Q. But it was over $2,000: how much over $2^000!— A. I don't re-
member precisely. I think tnere were two times when application was
made, and I recollect that I contributed as it was made to me. I had
long since ceased to have any active connection with the company and
I just contributed as I was asked.

Q. How much does this company owe you now on account of that
judgment! — A. I hardly know. I have received no payments.

Q. How much does the company owe you ; how much is your interest
in that judgment t — ^A. I don't remember; but it is over $20,000 1 should

Q. Over $20,000f— A. Yes, I should think so.

Q. Who received and distributed the money that was obtained from
this award t— A. I think it was done by the company.

Q. I am talking about the individuals ; what man received and dis-
tributed this money that came from this award! — A. 1 forget, sir.

Q. Who paid the money to you that you got, the $1,600, or whatever
sum it was f — ^A. I think Mr. Ely paid it to me.

Q. This gentleman heref — A. Yes, sir ; I think Mr. Gibbs was the
president of the company at the time, although, as I say, I don't recol-
lect. I was away.

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Q. Is Mr. Ely the general counsel of the company f — ^A. He was

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