United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on Fore.

Compilation of reports of Committee ... 1789-1901, First Congress, first session, to Fifty-sixth Congress, second session .. online

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gone over in detail that were subscribed before you made it a corpora-
tiou t — A. I think it was the same. I do not think there was any in
crease. At Uiat time it was iiot supposed that anything more was

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Q. Who was the first president t — ^A. I think Mr. Heam.

Q. Who was the next t— A. I believe Mr. Collins.*

Q. Where were the disbursements made that were made io baying
material and in paying off hands, and in a thousand and one things that
had to be paid out ; where were they, in fact, paid ont, and where was
the acconnt thereof kept t — ^A. In Mexico, at Tayoltita, so far as I
know and believe.

Q. Was there any of that kind of business done in Kew York at
all t — A. None whatever; nothing of that sort ever was done there.

Q. Now, to what extent did your books in New York show the busi-
ness, and what business did they show t — A. Well, they would show
the subscriptions, the amount paid on subscription, and amount ad-
vanced to the company on acconnt of these drafts of Bartholow, De Lag-
neL and others, if there were any others. That is all I know of.

Q. Well, they show the correspondence t — A. Oh, yes^ the oorre-
apondence book.

Q. But showed the business, I mean ; the votes, business, and meet-
ings done by the board of directors or trustees 1 — A. Oh, yes ; there
ought to have been a record book of that. I suppose there was.

Q. Now, is there any other business that those books showed t— A. I
can not conceive now of any.

Q. Well, it is not a question of conception; it is a question of what
you know about it. — A. Well, I do not know of any.

Q. Have any of the books or papers that were kept at the hacienda,
and belonged there as you have described, of business ever in New
York within your knowledge t — A. Not within my knowledge at all.

Q. Did Exall, when he returned to New York early in 1868, report to
you anything in regard to what had been done with the books and pa>
pers at the hacienda where he had left them; what he had done with
them f — ^A. Just left them there, that is aU.

Q. He told you that he reported ^A. He reported that he jost

went away and left everything.

Q. Now, I will ask about ExalPs report, on which you have been ex-
tensively examined. I want to ask you whether he ever made any report
either verbal or written at a meeting of a board of directors or stock-
holders — at a meeting that was convened for the purpose of hearing the
report or for any other purpose. Now try to think whether Exall ever
came before your board to make a report either written or unwritten t —
A. I think he must have done so.

Q. Well, have you any recollection on the subject 1— A. I have no
recollection of it. I have no distinct recollection of the fact.

Q. When you speak of those reports of the trouble there and what
caused him to go away, are you speaking about a report made to you
as an individual by yourself or made in the presence of others or
both ways 1— A. It was both ways; made in the presence of Mr. Oollins,
I think. We must have had a meeting together.

Mr. Foster. We don't want your thoughts, we want what you know.

The Witness. I think there was a meeting and he was there and
made statements, and made them perhaps to me and Mr. Oollins indi-

By the Chatbman;

Q. You say your best recollection. Do you mean you have any reool-
lection of such a fact 1 — ^A. There must have been such a thing there.

Q. Who was present at the meeting T — A. Well, Mr. Oollins was there

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and Mr. Worthiogton was there, and I do not remember the names of
the directors positively at that time, bat whatever directors were mem-
bers of the bo&itl at that time. Mr. Oibbs — I think he was there.
Q. Were you there 1 — ^A. I must have been there; yes, sir.


Q. Now call your mind — let us be careful not to argue anything out
from what would be probable, but call your mind back to the actual
occasion, the room, the place. Is it your testimony when you are an-
swering the Senator that these persons just named were there 1 — A.
That is my recollection of it

Q. Where was itt — A. It was at my room, my office, tbere in New

By the Chatbman :
Q. When was itt— A. It was in the summer of 1867 or 1868.

By Mr. Shellababgbb :

Q. Well, you know when it was he got back t— A. 1868 1 mean. Yes,

Q. Well, he got back in the spring! — ^A. Yes ; in the spring or sum-

Q. Well, it was in the spring, in May. You say that meeting did
not occur until summer! — A. Well, some of them were away |2 the
time, but as soon as we could get the directors together we held this
meeting, and Mr. Exall was there and told his story.

Q. Well, if you can report or state in any more detail than you have
already done, what he said there, you can state it, and if you can not I
will not trouble you with any questions, because you have been asked
a great many questions about what he said. — ^A. I can not state any
further than I have already done.

Q Now, did either of the superintendents there, either of the actual
superintendents, or the man who acted last as superintendent, named
Exall, did either of them, Bartholow, De Lagnel, or Exall, ever make to
Uie company in New York what you would call ore reports, reports of
the amount of ore gotten out and put on the patio t — A. There were no
such reports made that I recollect.

Q. Never! — A. Never that I know of.

Q. De Lagnel's letter reports, and Bartholow's, I think, approxi-
mately, about what you had at the time, but I am asking, and that is
what, I think, you are answering, about formal reports as such. — A.
None, I believe, ever existed.

Q. I have asked you, I believe, what he said he had done with the
books and papers. He said he left them there. That is right, is itt—
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Exall, when he got back to New York f — A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you ever know any of these papers that belonged and origi-
nated at the hacienda to come to New York 1 — A. Never knew that any
ever came there, nor do not believe they ever did.

Q. Are you personally aware of the character in which Exall first
went out, what his capacity was to be when he first went out, what re-
lation he was to sustain to the business or to the superintendent t — A.
He was sent out to assist De Lagnel. De Lagnel, as I understood from
his letters, was in bad health. Exall was a young, hearty looking man.
and seemed to be a single man and likely to be contented. De Lagnel
was a married man, in poor health, and wanted to return.

Q. Was there any power given to him when he went out, or after-

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wards at any time before he returued finally, any power of attorney or
power in writing t — A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. Well, woald you not have known it if there had been f — A. Cer-
tainly, I should think I woold.

Q. What salary did you agree to pay him when he went out. if any t —
A. I do not precisely remember.

Q. Well, do you remember whether his price was really fixed at all or
not, 01 was that leltopen? — A. I think it was fixed. I tiiink his salary
for that first year was fixed.

Q. At whati — ^A. I think, if I mistake not^ De Lagnel's salary was
about $2,000. I think that ExalPs was not as much, was less.

Q. When you came to settle with him finally, when he came up there
to New York and you paid him off, did you settle with him at the orig-
inal agreed price or at some other price f — A« We did not settle with
him at the amount he claimed.

Q. Yes ; you stated that to the chairman ; but what I wanted to
know — ^you said you did not settle at what he claimed, and I see by
his letters that he got up what he said himself was an extravagant
daim. But that is not the question. The question is whether you
settled with him at the salary, agreed price 1 — A. We must have settled
with him the balance due him of salary at the agreed price, whatever
that was, except perhaps, as I have stated, there might have been some
difficulty in raising the whole of it and he accepted what we had there.

Q. Was that any great reduction of salary f — A. I do not think
there was much reduction.

The Chairman. You say in his letters he made an extravagant
claim f

Mr. SHELLABARaER. In his correspondence with Granger he says,
^^ If I have to deal with the new company, I want to get out of them all
I can ; if with the old one, I must deal with them strictly."

Q. Was he continued in your employ at all by any new engagement
or any recognition after he returned to New York t— A. He was not^

Q. Have you glanced over or read this correspondence that appears
in this document, 274, a correspondence that purports to have passed
between Exall and Granger; have you read itT — A. Is this the book!

Q. That is the book, page 92. The first letter is at the bottom of
page 92. I will read a part of that letter to yon, or if anybody cares
to have it all read I will read it all.

Maz^tlam, Mtunk 15, 1868.

Deab Qramoer : I wrote yoo by Rice, and said everythiDg I thooght neceeaaiy.
Since writing, something else has transpired, which I think it bent to post yon on-
On yesterday Bartning and I had another conversation in reference to the draft mat
ter, but I gave him no satisfaction in the affair. He seemed particnlarlv anxions for
me to acknowledge the debt, and that the money bad been used for the benefit of the
company. His object in this is plain. He wants to get some hold on the company,
which ho has not now. I told him I would consult with Rolston in the matter, but
of course Mr. R. will get nothing more from me than Mr. B.

In reference to the La Abra affairs, I think we will have to look to this country.
The property can not be sold without legal authority from the company. This 1 think
can get. Am induced to believe so by the company letters received. In fact, it would
be difficult to get a purchaser without authonty to sell. I am certain of being able
to get some power from them, so as to enable us to secure ourselves. I will communi-
cate with company from San Francisco, and, if best, will go on immediately to New
Tork and return as soon as possible. Please keep evenrthing i n the best possible shape
and secure, and by no means let my books be seen or known. It is to the interest of
us both to do so ; therofore I know you will act as I advise in the matter. I have been
quite sick since being bore, and at onetime was afraid wouldn't be iU>le to go up. Am
now much better, and hope to be off to-morrow. The line is so arran^^ now that ^od
can get from New York to Masatlan in twenty days, so I will not be gone T6I7 iBBK*



Please act pradently in this matter, aud in a few months I think I will be able to pot as
both right. Be sore and write me by next steamer to San Francisco. I will make
arrangements in San lYaucisco or elsewhere. Direct care of Weil & Co. Ton will get
their nomlier from the books. Hoping that yon may get along all right, and that I
will be soon again with yon with means to satisfy ourselves,
I remain, yoor friend,

Cecarles H. ExalXm

Now, then, call yoar mind back to that period, if you please, Mr. Garth,
and tell as whether yon ever saw that letter, or saw its contents or knew
anything about its contents, until yon saw it in this print. — A. I never
8aw or heard of that letter or anything like it, or any correspondence
that he had with Granger until I came here as a witness and saw it in
this book.

Q. Then he writes one from San Francisco, dated April 7, 1868, page
95 of the House document we are using. Have you read that letter 1 —
A. I do not think I have read it through. Shall I read it through f

Q. I want you to read enough to testily whether you ever saw it be-
fore or knew its contents before yon saw it in print. — A. Shall I read it

Q. If yonean testify withoutreadingitoutitis just aswell. I wanted
the other because of some things that are in it. — A. (After examining.)
I have never seen or known of this letter until I saw and read it here
in this book.

Q. Now read enough of the one that is on page 93, dated May 8,
1868, at New York, written by Ezall to Granger, to state whether you
ever saw that letter or heard from Exall or anybody else the matter he
there details. — A. (After examining.) I never saw or heard of this let-
ter before I saw it here.

The Ohaibman. Bead the question again.

The stenographer read the question again, as follows :

Now read enough of the one that is on nage 93, dated May 8, 1868, at New York,
written by EzaU to Granger, to state whether yon ever saw that letter or heard from
Exall or anybody els^ the matter he there details.

A. I never heard anything of this letter before I saw it here in print.

By the Chairman :
Q. Or the matters he therein details f — A. Nor the matters he therein
Q. I will read it to you so that it may go in the record :

New York, iToyd, 1866.
Dear Qranoer : Jonrs from Tayoltita of March 25 reached me day before yester-
day. Was much pleased to hear m>m yon and to know that yon were |;etting along
in some shape. I wrote yon from San Francisco Jnst previous to sailing from this
point, giving yon a statement of my doings whiio there; so no need of repetition.
As I stated in my letter to yon, I came by the Opposition ronte across the isthmns —
Walker's old ^nnd — and while crossing it I can safely say I had the damndest rongh-
est time imaginable. It was awfnl low water in the small streams or rivers; heavy
rains while on the Jonmey ; in water, pushing flats, etc., etc. It was an indescribable
mean and rough trip. We were four days getting across; got pretty good sea steamer
on this side; 27 days from San Francisco to N. Y. Of course, on the first day of my
arrival here I saw nothing of the company. The day after I went down and saw
Garth. Had a long talk concerning affairs, and. contrarjr to our expectations, gave
me no satisfaction; didn't seem to intend to ao anything more. I have seen nim
several times, but have got nothing from him of an enconraffing nature. He seems
diagnsted with the enterprise, and, so far as regards himself, intends to do noth-
ing more, or have nothing more to do with it. Well, I then went t-o one of the
stockholders and directors, who talked a little better. It seems there is party here
who has been after Garth, and this stockholder mentioned to sell the mines to a wealthy

ewbo are now sncoessfnlly mining in California. This party have been after
jgltiffman repeatedly, endeavoring to get them to sell the mines, etc., they

^pt2 16

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bearing all expense and p^ing the preeent company 8o ninoh stock. This party an
not now in New York. One m them has gone to hunt ap De Lagnel to get all possi-
ble information concerning Tayoltita, etc. In addition the party will pay up al
debts against the company. From what this director tells me, they seem in earnest
They are not aware of my arrival; have been written to informing them of the fact
and I will probably be brought in oontaot with them before long. Now, as yon and
I are the principal creditors— I haven't been able to get a cent from them — '' the com-
pany " — and the thing being in my hands, if this party intend baying, we can and
will make a good thing oat of it. Those of the company I have seen have tamed
the affikirs over to me ; so. in case anything can be done with this party, don't be
afraid of yoor interests— all accounts at the mines are under my oontiol— as yours will
be looked to in conjunction with my own. All now depends in what can be done with
this partvy and more information, concerning it I am unable to fpre until seeing '
them. I have informed the company that they shall do nothing until you and I were
paid, which seemed satisfactory.

This will be mailed by steamer of Ilth inst. If you do not hear from me by steamer
of 21st, it will be on account of affairs not having been concluded. Tou may cer-
tainly expect a letter by mail of 1st June ; hope previous to that time that I may have
made satisfactory arrangements, etc. Just at this crisis it will be necessary to keep
all secure at the mines. In my conversation with these gentlemen I will represent
things in a secure state, if possible get prorogas on mines where times are expiring ;
keep them secure, if possible, in some way ; don't be uneasy or spend a thought on
Cullins or B'k of Cal. ; find out in a aniet way when and where yon may dispose of
the remaining property, but do not sell until ^on hear again from me. I hope to be
able to make something for ourselves out of this thing— at present we are in toe dark,
but I will soon knotr something definite and will immediately write yon. In case
this party should purchase I will accompany them to the mines. Yon can extend
Ariza's '^Guarismey" privilege ** if he wants it" another 3, 4, or 6 mos. ; don't ex-
tend Guadalupe's more than a month at a time ; do the best yon can under the oiroom-
stances, using your own lodgment, being guided to an extent by what I have written.

I am also sorry I sold Green Nelly ; I think he is a damn rascal, and his company a
fizzle. Get the mnle, saddle, and bridle and cloths from Green. If the co. owe you
anything make them pay. Green's draft was refused in Frisco and here. I inclose a
note to bim from the man the draft was drawn on, also one from myself.

1 wish I could send you some means to get along with, knowing you must be hav-
ing quite a rough time, but am unable. I expected to be paid up hero ; its not haTing
been done plays the devil with my arrangements. Since my arrival hero the weather
has been exceedingly unpleasant ,* raining nearly all the time. N. Y. is exceedingly
dull ; business much depressed; the political state of affiiirs of course has everything
to do with it. Johnson is not yet impeached, and heavy odds are bet in Waabinetoo
against the impeachment. Many changes have taken place since I was here last.
Old friends I left, book-keepers, clerks, etc., many aro now doing business on their
own accounts, but have a hard time of it on account of the state of affairs here. To-
morrow I intend to take a run down to old Va. to see my folks. My mother and a
sister aro in exceedingly ill health ; expect to be gone from hero only a few daya. I
have now written all that bears on the important subject with us. Would write more
definite, but, as yon see. I am now unable to do so. I will write immediately on re-
ceipt of news. Let mo near from you every opportunity, and direct via Aoapaleo, aa
they get here sooner than by 'Frisco. I will send this that way. My kind regards to
Slone ''Mannelitta'*— I think that's the way to spell the name; Guadalupe's family

§ morally ; Cecilia and the Tayoltitians generally. How are yon and Cecilia now Y
oping that this may find you well and getting enough to eat, I remain as ever, your


The contents of this keep to yoursel£

I anderstand yon to say that yoa never before heard of any cf the
matters stated in that letter. — A. That is what I assert.

By Mr. Shellababgeb :

Q. You mean by your answer to the Senator that you never heard of

the matters, or that you never heard of the contents of this letter t A.

I never heard of the contents of this letter.

Q. As a letter 1 — A. Yes, I mean that. This letter — I never knew
anything about itB existence. Until I came here and heard it read I
did not know that he was in correspondence with Granger at all. it is
news to me until I came here and saw this thing. I never read theee

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Q. For iDstance^ he says, near the beginning of the letter:

The day after I went dowo and saw Garth. Had a long talk conoernin^ afB^irs,
and» contrary to onr expectations, gave me no satisfaction ; didn't seem to intend to
do anything more. I have seen him several times, hnt have got nothing from him of
an encouraging nature.

Did you hear of that t Did he have those interviews with you t— A.
As I stated, judge, I tried to say that

Q. How soon aft>er his arrival ? — A. That is the day after, or two days
after, or two weeks after, I don't know when he arrived there precisely ;
but he did cooie down and have a talk as I have detailed; that he was
expelled from Mexico or came from Mexico and left things there, and
talked about the amount due him, which was — I do not recollect his
making any specific demand — but about the balance due him on the
salary, and I told him I could not raise it all; that we would do the best
we could when the gentlemen that were in the directors and those of the
friends of the company when I could see them ; we would make a con-
tribution and try to pay the balance due him, but we did not employ
him. He was no further in the employ of the company. I knew of no
correspondence whatever with any other party that he had going on at
the time; never heard of it until I saw these letters.

By Mr. Dolph :
Q. Did I understand you to say he had been expelled from Mexico
and came from Mexico t — ^A. He told me he had left Mexico because of
the impossibility of conducting the business there with safety to his
life, and with any iiope of carrying it on, on account of the disturbances
that he had been subjected to there, as I have tried to state over and
over again.

By the Ghaibman:

Q. About the time that Exall appeared in New York had any party
of gentlemen been endeavoring to get you to sell the mine, or making
any offer for the mine 1 — A. Did you ask me a question t

Q. Yes; I asked about the time that Exall arrived in New York.
Was there a party of gentlemen making propositions to you in regard
to the mines; buying them or taking them off of your hands f — ^A. I
think not. I have no recollection of the fact.

Q. I thought you mentioned in the examination yesterday perhaps— *-
A. Oh, that was some time subsequently. I do not know how long.
There was some talk by a party, who seemed to be wanting to buy these
mines or make some arrangement about it, but it was ascertained that
he was of no account, and the whole thing was dropped— did not amount
to anything.

Q. You say some time subsequent. Subsequent to whati — A. It
might have been about that time, but it was probably subsequent to
this June or July or August. I do not know what it was of 1868.

Q. I would like for you to locate as well as you can the time which
these gentlemen made this overture 1 — A. There was not any gentle-
men ; there was a man that probabW came to my office once or twice
and talked about going to Mexico to look at these mines or doing some-
thing with them, but there was nothing to him; he was a deM-beat,
and I did not pay any attention to it at alL

Q. Do you know his name 1 — A. I have forgotten his name.

Q. Did you know him before that time! — A. Never.

Q. How did you And out he was a dead-beat t — ^A. Well, I inquirc<l
around there. He did not amount to anything.

Q. Did you know where he was from t — A. No, sir.

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Q. Was he represeDting himself ouiy or some other person in connec-
tion with itt — A. The negotiation t There was not any negotiatioD
abont it.

Q. I did not ask aboat negotiations. I asked if he represented him-
self alone or represented others t — A. As far as I know, represented
himself alone.

Q. Did he call frequently upon you about itt — A. Ko, sir ; there was
very little said.

Q. Abont how often did he call t— A. He may have been once or
twice, perhaps twice.

Q. Did you converse with Exall about his proposition f — A. Abont

Q. About his proposition of taking the mines T — A. No, sir; I had
no further talk with Exall in regard to it.

Q. You are certain you did not mention that to Exall T — A. I do not
think I did ; do not remember having done it.

Q. You do not know how he became possessed of the foot, then t — A.
I do not. I do not know to what he alludes.

Q. Well, he alludes to this :

It seems there is a party here who has been after Garth and this stockholder men-
tioned to seU the mines to a wealthy party, who are now successfaUy mining in Cali-

A. I do not recollect any such transaction at all — any wealthy party
in California at all.

Online LibraryUnited States. Congress. Senate. Committee on ForeCompilation of reports of Committee ... 1789-1901, First Congress, first session, to Fifty-sixth Congress, second session .. → online text (page 31 of 156)