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Investigation of improper activities in the labor or management field. Hearings before the Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Management Field (Volume pt. 54) online

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The Chairman. What else ?

Mr. Naiman. That is all.

The Chairman. You didn't tell Jiim anything about the planes ?

Mr. Naiman. No, sir ; I did not, and I don't recall ever telling him
anything about the planes.

The Chairman. Do you think that he didn't find out about the
planes from you there that day ?

Mr. Naiman. Not from me, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. That is very interesting. If that is what you told
Mr. Hoffa the loan was for. The affidavit states that loan was for :

Mr. Naiman wished to obtain a loan of $300,000 from the pension fund to
finance the sale of some airplanes which had been purchased from the
Government.

The Chairman. That is what Mr. Downs said that you repre-
sented to him.

Mr. Naiman. That may be all good and well, sir, but I could not
borrow any money against the quarry unless those obligations were
taken care of, sir.



19080 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

The Chairman. I understand that.

Mr. Naiman. They couldn't take care of it.

The Chairman. You wanted to put up your interest in that in order
to secure the loan ?

Mr. Naiman. That is right, sir.

The Chairman. But the real object of the loan was to carry out the
airplane transaction, and that is why you wanted the money in the
first place ?

Mr. Naiman. My dear Senator

The Chairman. Is that correct ?

Mr. Naiman. My dear Senator, let me make this statement, please :
I made a statement before that I could not use this money for any
other purpose, only for what was purported at the quarry, and there
wouldn't have been anything left.

The Chairman. There is no reason for you to borrow the money
except that you wanted to clear that up so that you could carry out
your airplane transaction.

Mr. Naiman. No ; because I am under pressure there on the stock,
and I have to pay that off. The records will show that.

The Chairman. I don't understand why you were representing up
there to Mr. Downs that you wanted the money to carry out an air-
plane transaction to finance it, and that is what he said.

Mr. Naiman. Oh, no ; and why did he go to the quarry, sir ?

The Chairman. I guess he wanted to see what kind of security it
was.

Mr. Kennedy. That is the security for the loan, and Mr. Naiman
was offering his interest in the company, that is Niagara Crushed
Stone, Ltd.

Mr. Naiman. You will find that money was needed for the quarry.

Mr. Kennedy. What was Mr. Triscaro doing? Did he go up to
the quarry ?

Mr. Naiman. No, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Triscaro was interested in connection with the
airplanes, and Mr. Triscaro came back and he arranged the appoint-
ment with Hoffa.

Mr. Naiman. Mr. Triscaro was interested only through friendship
of mine.

Mr. Kennedy. He was so friendly that he made three trips to Cuba
with you ?

Mr. Naiman. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. And then he arranged for the visit with Mr. Hoffa;
is that right ?

Mr. Naiman. That is right.

Mr. Kennedy. And he made the arrangement for the visit with Mr.
Downs ?

Mr. Naiman. That is right.

Mr. Kennedy. And then he traveled here to Washington, D.C., to
visit with Mr. Hoffa ?

Mr. Naiman. That is right.

Mr. Kennedy. And he was present at the time ?

Mr. Naiman. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. And, No. 2, didn't Mr. Bartone come with you to
see Mr. Downs in Chicago ?



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 19081

Mr. Naiman. Yes, sir, he did.

Mr. Kennedy. No, Mr. Bartone had an interest in the Niagara
Crushed Stone Co. ?

Mr. Naiman. No, de didn't, and I just asked him to take a ride
with me, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. Now, JVIr. Naiman, you know that is not the trutli.

Mr, Naiman. Mr. Kennedy, that is the truth.

Mr. Kennedy. He stated or Mr. Downs states here under oath that
Mr. Bartone came in and said that you two wanted a loan and that
Mr. Benjamin Dranow had made the arrangements. Now, he didn't
say, "My friend here, Mr. Naiman, wants a loan." It was both you
wanted a loan, and we have already identified Mr. Bartone as being
in this company.

(At this point Senator Curtis entered the hearing room ; Senator
Church withdrew from the hearing room.)

Mr. Naiman. To my knowledge Mr. Bartone was not in the com-
pany and is not in the company at all.

Mr. Kennedy. He had an option, did he not, in connection with the
sale of two of the planes ?

Mr. Naiman. Only as a salesman, that is all, but no connection with
the company itself.

Mr. Kennedy. It says:

Mr. Bartone discussed the planes themselves, and the potential sale of them
to Cuban buyers and others.

When you testify here under oath, Mr. Naiman, that all that Mr.
Bartone was doing is that he happened to come up for a ride, you
know that is not true.

]\Ir. Naiman. To my knowledge it is the truth.

The Chairman. This is getting pretty important, and do you want
to say that all he went along for was the ride, and he had no interest
in the transaction ?

Is that what you want to testify to under oath ?

Do you want to leave the record that way '? I am leaving it up to
you. There is no use to keep going on and on about this, and you
either did or did not, and he was in on the deal or he wasn't, and if he
was in on it you know it. If he was in on it he went for more than a
ride. What about it ?

Mr, Naiman. To my knowledge lie was only in as a salesman, sir.

The Chairman. Well, he had an interest as salesman and how much
was he going to make if the planes were sold ?

Mr. Naiman. Ten percent.

The Chairman. He had a pretty good interest in it.

Mr. Naiman. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Well, he did have an interest in the plane deal.

Mr. Naiman. In that way, yes.

The Chairman. Well, then, in that way, that is profit, and that is
making money, and that is what you usually travel for, isn't it, on a
business deal?

Mr. Naiman. I didn't want it to be inferred that he was part of
Akros.

The Chairman. I didn't say anything about Akros,

Were you trying to get money to finance a plane deal down in Cuba ?

Mr. Naiman. That is correct.



19082 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

The Chairman. That is correct ?

Mr. Naiman. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. And he had a 10-percent interest in it, didn't he,
of the profits you were to make out of it ?

Mr. Naiman. Of the planes that he would sell, yes.

The Chairman. And you needed a loan to carry out that trans-
action ; is that right?

Mr. Naiman. Frankly, if that transaction would have gone
through, he wouldn't have needed any loan.

The Chairman. I know, sure, if it rained money from heaven,
probably he wouldn't need to work for it. There are a lot of ifs, but
what you wanted was a loan to finance this plane transaction; isn't
that correct ?

Do you have to hesitate about that ? This fellow had a 10-percent
interest in the profits, and yet he went along with you just for the
ride. Don't you think that the 10-percent potential profit was a bit
of inducement to him to go along and help you get the loan ?

Mr. Naiman. It should; yes, sir.

The Chairman. I think so.

All right.

Mr. Kennedy. Now, you want to straighten the record out, Mr.
Naiman, and you don't want to leave it like this: Isn't it correct that
when you came into Washington and you met with Mr. Hoffa, there
was a discussion about the fact that you needed this money for the
loan for the planes ?

Mr. Naiman. I wasn't in there all of the time.

Mr. Kennedy. But he understood that, and you had some discus-
sion back and forth, just as you told our investigator. Do you want
to tell the truth, Mr. Naiman, and you are a reputable businessman
out in Ohio.

Mr. Naiman. They didn't go along on that basis, and they wouldn't
go along.

Mr. Kennedy. We don't know whether they went along, and we
can put that in the record as we go along, but at least get this as far
as your knowledge about it.

You knew that they discussed that, Mr. Naiman, and you know
that as a reputable businessman, and a reputable citizen of Ohio, and
you don't want to lie to the committee.

Mr. Naiman. I don't want to lie to anybody.

Mr. Kennedy. Isn't it correct that you discussed the planes?

Mr. Naiman. That it was discussed, not with Mr. Hoffa, but with
Mr. Downs.

Mr. Kennedy. When you went in and visited with Mr. Hoffa and
you were trying to obtain this loan and trying to obtain his interest
in the loan, or trying to get him to back you or help you and assist
you in getting the loan, didn't you tell him at that time what you
wanted the loan for?

Mr. Naiman. You are talking about who, sir?

Mr. Kennedy. I am talking about your conversation with Mr.
Hoffa.

Mr. Naiman. I don't remember that, Mr. Kennedy, at any time
mentioning it.

Mr. Kennedy. I don't see how you could go and see anyone about
a loan without telling them what the loan was going to be for.



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 19083

Mr. Naiman. As I said before, I stated that the loan was supposed
to be made for the quarry.

Mr. Kennedy. You know that isn't correct either, Mr. Naiman.
You know that loan was for the airplanes, just as you told Mr. Downs,
and the reason Mr. Bartone accompanied you.

Mr. Naiman. I know, but in reference to the conversation with Mr.
Downs, the loan was not granted on the basis of the planes ; not at all.

Mr. Kennedy. Well, Mr. Chairman, could I suggest that the wit-
ness take a 5-minute recess, because he has told the committee staff a
different story. As I say, we expected to have him come up here
and give us the whole truth and the complete facts in connection
with this.

Mr. Naiman, I am giving you the truth.

Mr. Kennedy. Why do you think Mr. May and Mr. Constandy,
who talked to you within the last 10 days, would state, and Mr. Con-
standy is prepared to state, that you told them that you discussed the
planes with Mr. Hoffa? There is no reason for them to lie about
that.

You were trying to ^et a loan in connection with the planes, and it
would be the most logical thing in the world that you discussed the
planes.

Mr. Naiman. I don't remember discussing the planes.

Mr. K!ennedy. Did you remember it 2 weeks ago ?

Mr. Naiman. Two week ago ?

Mr. Kennedy. When you told Mr. May and Mr. Constandy.

Mr. Naiman. To my knowledge, the best I remember is that I ap-
plied for a loan for the quarry. I just don't remember.

Mr. Kennedy. We will have some documents, then.

The Chairman. Are you through with this witness?

Mr. Kennedy. I will put some documents in.

The Chairman. Proceed.

TESTIMONY OF WALTER R. MAY— Resumed

Mr. Kennedy. Would you identify the documents?

Mr. May. These documents were obtained with Mr. Downs' co-
operation from his file, and the first one is dated April 24. It is a
telegram from Mr. James C. Downs, Jr., Eeal Estate Kesearch Corp.,
to Mr. Maurice Lewis, Pan American Bank, Miami, Fla.

It reads :

Mr. Al Naiman of Cleveland has made application to the Central States-
Southeastern-Sonthwestern Carriers Pension Fund for a loan which is now in
the process of appraisal and evaluation, on which there should be preliminary
conclusion early in the coming week.

The second document is a letter, sir, from the secretary to Mr. James
C. Downs, Jr., dated April 24, 1959, and directed to Mr. Alvin A.
Naiman, of the Alvin A. Naiman Corp. in Cleveland, Ohio:

Dear Mr. Naiman : Mr. Downs asked me to send you the enclosed three copies
of a telegram which was sent this morning to Mr. Maurice Lewis of the Pan
American Bank in Miami, Fla.

We spoke with Mr. Downs of Chicago, and he said that he sent this
telegram to the bank at the request of Mr. Naiman.

The Chairman. These may be made exhibits 31-A and 31-B.



19084 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibits 31-A and 31-B," re-
spectively, for reference, and will be found in the appendix on pp.
19135-19136.) I

Mr. KJENNEDY. Will you show us the significance in connection with
those?

Mr. May. We also spoke with Mr. Lewis of the Pan American Bank,
who stated that he was pressing for money and this was Mr. Naiman's
way of showing the Pan American Bank that money would be forth-
coming in a short time.

The Chairman. What did that bank want money for? What was
the connection there ?

Mr. May. The bank held an $840,000 mortgage on the airplanes.

The Chairman. They were pressing for their money ?

Mr, May. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. So that Mr. Downs when he was approached — when
he was considering this application at the instance of Mr. Naiman —
sent the telegram which would give some indication that the matter was
under active consideration to secure a loan, where they might pay off
the plane ?

Mr. May. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. This is April 24, and Mr. Downs clearly states in his
affidavit that the loan that was made or applied for in connection with
the airplanes, and that the security was the Niagra Crushed Stone Co.

TESTIMONY OF ALVIN NAIMAN— Resumed

The Chairman. If there had not been an airplane transaction, there
wouldn't be any necessity for you getting a loan, would there be ?

Mr. Naiman. Probably not, sir.

Mr, Kennedy. Now, what happened to the loan, Mr. Naiman ?

Mr, Naiman, It was rejected,

Mr, Kennedy. When was it rejected ?

Mr. Naiman. I don't remember the exact date.

Mr. Kennedy, About a week or 10 days ago ?

Mr. Naiman. I think so.

Mr, Kennedy, Two weeks ago ?

Mr. Naiman, Yes, sir ; approximately 2 weeks ago,

Mr. Kennedy. It was approved first by a majority of the trustees;
is that right ?

Mr. Naiman, That was my understanding,

Mr, Kennedy, And then it was rejected iDy Stanford Clinton. I^Ir,
Clinton we just found turns out to be the attorney for the trust fund,
Mr, Chairman, and he is also the attorney for the Dorfmans, which is
of some interest to us. But he is attorney for the trust fund, and he
stated because of a legal technicality that the loan could not be made;
is that right ?

Mr, Naiman, I am sorry, Mr. Kennedy.

Mr, Kennedy, He stated that because of a legal technicality, the
loan could not be made,

Mr, Naiman. That is right,

Mr, Kennedy, And he ruled that in the last couple of weeks?

Mr, Naiman, Yes, sir; about 2 weeks ago.



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 19085

Mr. Kennedy. This Mr. Bartone, who accompanied you just for
the ride up to Chicago, did you give him permission to take one of
your planes to Puerto Rico?

Mr. Naiman. Yes, I did, sir; over the phone.

Mr. Kennedy. You did give him that permission ?

Mr. Naiman. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. Tliis man that you said just accompanied you for
the ride up to Chicago ?

Mr. Naiman. That is right, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. When was that?

Mr. Naiman. I don't remember, and I wouldn't remember the date,
and I imagine you have it.

• Mr. Kennedy. Did you have knowledge that he was intending to
use that plane to smuggle arms to the Dominican Republic?

Mr. Naiman. Absolutely not ; never.

Mr. Kennedy. Did you have knowledge that he was going to use
the plane to smuggle the arms to the Dominican Republic and then
sell the plane for $400,000 when he arrived in the Dominican
Republic ?

Mr. Naiman. Absolutely not.

Mr. Kennedy. You had no information about that ?

Mr. Naiman. Absolutely no.

Mr. Kennedy. But you did give him permission, this man who
accompanied you up to Chicago, you did give him permission to fly
the plane to Puerto Rico ?

Mr. Naiman. To San Juan and make sure he got all of the proper
clearance from tlie State Department and whatever procedure you
have to go through.

The Chairman. Wliat was the reason for his trip ?

Mr. Naiman. A demonstration flight, sir.

The Chairman. Demonstrating to whom ?

Mr. Naiman. He had some buyers, prospective buyers.

The Chairman. Over in the Dominican Republic ?

Mr. Naiman. No, sir, that was in Puerto Rico, to the best of my
knowledge.

The Chairman. Did he tell you who his prospective buyers were?

Mr. Naiman. No, sir ; he did not.

The Chairman. You just let him have the plane. How much do
you value these planes? You are asking about $400,000, what you
expect to get out of each one ; isn't that right ?

Mr. Naiman. Yes.

The Chairman. That is what you are trying to sell them for,
around $400,000?

Mr. Naiman. Gross ; yes, sir.

The Chairman. And they actually cost you, or they will actually
cost you, about $75,000 each, will they ?

Mr; Naiman. I beg your pardon, sir. It would be more than that.

The Chairman. Well, it will cost you more than that. You were
letting him have a pretty valuable piece of property to drive around
or fly around ; weren't you ?

Mr. Naiman. Yes.

The Chairman. I mean without knowing something about liis
business, and why he wanted it and what he w^vs going to do with it.



19086 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

I am just trying to get at the reason in this thing. You let him have
a plane now to fly out there.

Mr. Naiman. Well, the plane was supposed to be gone for a period
of 14 days, if my recollection is proper, and was supposed to be
brought back.

The Chairman. All right.

Mr. Kennedy. We are going to have to recall Mr. Naiman, Mr.
Chairman.

The Chairman. Do you want to call another witness ?

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Stand aside for the moment. We will have to
have you come back directly when we get some further testimony.

Call the next witness. *

Mr. Kennedy. We have Mr. Hamilton, and Mr. Juliani.

The Chairman. Senator Goldwater wanted to be present when
this witness testified.

Everyone can be at ease for a moment until I get some information.

(A brief recess was taken.)

The Chairman. The committee will come to order.

(Members of the select committee present after the recess were
Senators McClellan, Ervin, and Curtis.)

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Naiman.

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Naiman, I understood you wanted
to make some statement.

Mr. Naiman. Ask me the question, please, Mr. Kennedy.

The Chairman. I understood you wanted to make some further
statement.

Mr. Kennedy. This is in connection with your visit here when you
went to see Mr. Hoff a in connection with this loan.

Was there a discussion at that time about the fact that you needed
the money in connection with these airplanes ?

Mr. Naiman. Yes ; there was.

The Chairman. Now let me ask you something.

Mr. Kennedy. I will say something for Mr. Naiman.

He has grown up with a number of these people that are involved,
and he explained to us, and it is reasonable, he does not want to get
anybody in any great difficulty. We have had a considerable amount
of difficulty on occasion to try to get some of these facts. I thiiik he
would like to help us, but I think that that has been a problem.

The Chairman. I want to have a little conversation with you in a
minute, when you leave the witness stand, about something else.

Mr. Naiman. Thank you, sir.

The Chairman. Is there anything further ?

Mr. Kennedy. That is all.

The Chairman. You may be recalled. Not today, necessarily, but
you may be recalled at some future time.

In the meantime you will remain under your present subpena.

Mr. Kennedy. He is not subpenaed, I don't believe.

The Chairman. I want to see you before you leave. You may
stand aside for the present time. I will discuss this matter with j^ou
that I have in mind. You may stand aside for the present. I will see
you just before you leave.

Call the next witnesses, please.



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 19087

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Juliani.

The Chairman. Be sworn.

Do you and each of you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Hamilton. I do.

Mr. Juliani. I do.

TESTIMONY OF GORDON HAMILTON AND GERALD B. JULIANI

The Chairman. Beginning on my left, the witness on my left, will
you state your name, your place of residence, and your business or
occupation, please, sir ?

Mr. Juliani. Gerald B. Juliani, 2710 East Adams, Tucson, Ariz.
I am vice president of the Hamilton Aircraft Co.

The Chairman. Thank you very much, sir.

And the witness on my right ?

Mr. Hamilton. Gordon Hamilton, 4135 East Fourth Street, Tuc-
son. I am president of the Hamilton Co.

The Chairman. Thank you very much.

Gentlemen, you both waive counsel ; do you ?

Mr. Hamilton. Yes.

Mr. Juliani. Yes.

The Chairman. I might say to you gentlemen that Senator Gold-
water was very anxious to be present when you testified, and said
you are two of the fine citizens in his State. He had planned to be
here. We tried to hold off as long as w^e could so he might be here,
but other duties make it impossible for him to be here at this time.
He wanted me to tell you that because we discussed it here this morn-
ing, hoping we could get to you before noon, but we were not able
to do so.

All right, Mr. Kennedy.

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Hamilton, you placed a bid also in connection
with these airplanes, did you not ?

Mr. Hamilton. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. You were unsuccessful ?

Mr. Hamilton. That is right.

Mr. Kennedy. While the negotiating was going on in 1957, did
you make a visit to Cleveland, Ohio ?

Mr. Hamilton. Yes.

Mr. Kennedy. And visited there with whom ?

Mr. Hamilton. Mr. Benjamin, Mr, Zappone, and I believe they
were the two principals. There was a Father Brady, and one or two
other gentlemen who seemed to be connected with Akros.

Mr. Kennedy. In 1958, Mr. Steiner came to your office and requested
a quotation for a flight for one of these C-74's ; is that correct ?

Mr. Hamilton. Actually, the first contact was a request for quo-
tation by telephone.

Mr. Kennedy. And you furnished the quotation — this is just pre-
liminary background — you furnished the quotation in August, re-
ceived orders to proceed in November, and you began work in late
December and completed work on the plane in January 1959 ?

Mr. Hamilton. That is correct.

36751/ — 59— pt 54 20



19088 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

Mr. Kennedy. And Akros paid you $6,000 for the work; is that
right?

Mr. Hamilton. That is right.

Mr. Kennedy. During the latter part of February of 1959, did you
receive a telephone call as to what should be done with that airplane ?

Mr. Hamilton. I received a series of calls from various people.

Mr. Kennedy. From whom was the first call ?

Mr. Hamilton. Well, I believe the first call was from Mr. Naiman.

Mr. Kennedy. What did he say at that time ?

Mr. Hamilton. He said that it appeared that they had a sale for
the aircraft in Havana, and that he wanted us to get the airplane
ready as soon as possible.

Mr. Kennedy. Did you receive a call subsequent to that?

Mr. Hamilton. Well, we received many calls then. Most of them
were instructions from many people on the same subject.

Mr. Kennedy. Whom did you receive the calls from, please ?

Mr. Hamilton. Well I received a call from Mr. Bartone and Mr.
Dranow, and they tell me I received a call from Mr. Triscaro, but I
are not sure.

Mr. Kennedy. Triscaro?

Mr. Hamilton. Triscaro, yes.

I have had a great deal of business to do with these first three gentle-
men I mentioned since then, and I have had nothing to do with
Triscaro since then, so I am not quite sure whether he called or not.

Mr. Kennedy. The records show that he made a telephone call to
you while in Miami, Fla., from room 509 at the Hotel Eden Roc. He
made a call to you at Tucson, Ariz., at MA-3-3671.

Mr. Hamilton. This could be possible.

Mr. Kennedy. And that call was on February 27, 1959. It was
a person-to-person call and it lasted for 8 minutes.

Mr. Hamilton. It could be very possible. We get calls from all
over the country.

Mr. Kennedy. Were these people all giving you instructions as to
what should be done with the airplane ?

Mr. Hamilton. It was very confusing. Yes.

Mr. Kennedy. Finally, on March 7, Bartone called you and said
you were to have the plane in Havana the following Friday?

Mr. Hamilton. That is correct.

Mr. Kennedy. Did you say you would need money to get it there ?
Who did he say would furnish you the money ?

Mr. Hamilton. I advised him that before we could proceed with the
work we would have to get a deposit on the job, and he said that a
Mr. Dranow would be calling and confirm the fact that he would
receive the money and the money would be forthcoming shortly.

Then I did receive this call from Mr. Dranow. He said that the
money would be there shortly. He asked me about matters of insur-
ance that we later ironed out.

Mr. Kennedy. Did he tell you at that time that he "was running
the show'' ?

Mr. Hamilton. Well, everybody seemed to be of that opinion at
that time. I mean, Dranow, Bartone, and everything — but I finally
got instructions from Mr. Naiman. He had been my contact. He



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