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United States. Congress. Senate. Select Committee.

Investigation of improper activities in the labor or management field. Hearings before the Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Management Field (Volume pt. 54) online

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the Woodner Hotel, Washington, collect and spoke for 9 minutes.

On April 21, Triscaro went to Miami and stayed with Bartone at the DuPont
Plaza Hotel. On April 24, Downs wrote the Screening Committee of the Cen-
tral States Fund to inform it that he did not think Naiman's security for the
loan v,^as sufiicient to warrant granting the loan.

On May 1, Naiman and Triscaro traveled to Washington to discuss the loan
with James Hoffa. Present also was Gene San Soucie. Hoffa called Downs
in their presence with Naiman on the extension telephone.

May 4, Triscaro returned to Miami where he stayed at the Eden Roe Hotel
until May 8. While there, on May 5, he called Gene San Soucie in Indianapo-
lis and James Hoffa in Washington, D.C.

About May 2G, Downs learned from Francis Murtha, secretary of the Central
States Pension Fund, that the trustees were being circularized by telegram for
approval of Naiman's loan. Neither know who initiated the telegrams.

Gene San Soucie sent Murtha a felegram May 26, approving the loan for
himself and on behalf of James Hoffa.

May 22, Bartone and others were arrested in Miami, Fla., charged with
conspiracy to export munitions illegally and to bribe Federal officers.

Downs dictated a letter to Hoffa May 26 indicating the terms under which
he would approve the loan.

On May 28 Triscaro went to ^liami and stayed in the same room at the Eden
Roc Hotel with Bartone until May 29.

On June 4, Hoffa from Washington, called Dooms' office in Chicago at 9:50
a.m. and spoke to Mr. Lieberman. At 10:12 a.m. Hoffa called Francis Murtha,
secretary of the Central States Pension Fund.

On June 5, 1959, Murtha circularized the trustees of the pension fund for their
approval of Naiman's loan.

Jime 9, Hoffa called, from the IBT Building in Washington, to Downs at
9:40 a.m. and Murtha at 2 :.50 a.m. Murtha, at about 4 p.m., told staff mem-
bers that he had that day received telegrams from the trustees indicating that
Naiman's loan had been approved.

At 3 :04 p.m. the same day, Gene San Soucie called Naiman in Cleveland
from the IBT Building in Washington.

On Friday, June 12, at 12:20 a.m., James Hoffa called Stanford Clinton,
attorney for the Central States Pension Fund.



19106 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

The following Monday, June 15, Stanford Clinton told Naiman the loan had been
rejected.

The Chairman. Is there anything further of this witness ?

Mr. Kennedy. That is all.

The Chairman. Have you any statement you wish to make ?

Mr. Triscaro. I decline to answer because

The Chairman. I don't care whether you make it or not.

Mr. Triscaro. No. No, sir.

The Chairman. All right.

Mr. Kennedy. You wouldn't tell us anything about Benjamin
Dranow, Mr. Triscaro ?

Mr. Triscaro. I decline to answer because I honestly believe my
answer may tend to incriminate me.

The Chairman. Stand aside.

Call the next witness.

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, could I call Mr. Bellino ?

We have not been able to check all the records of Mr. Bellino, but
I would like to give what we have been able to find out.

The Chairman. Come forward, Mr. Bellino.

You have been previously sworn ?

Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Proceed.

TESTIMOITY OF CAEMUTE S. BELLTMO— Sesumed

Mr. Kennedy. Have you reviewed the records we can obtain re-
garding the financial transactions of Mr. Dranow?

Mr. Belling. We have been attempting to get all the bank accounts
possible throughout the country in which Benjamin Dranow has had
an account. We find that from 1954 through 1959 in 10 different
accounts he has deposited a total of $2,944,000.

The Chairman. What period of time ?

Mr. Bellino. 1954 through the present time.

The Chairman. How much?

Mr. Belling. $2,944,000.

The Chairman. Just a moment. What is the source of that in-
come ? Do you have anything to indicate that ?

Mr. Belling. That is what we are trying to find out. There is a
lot of tracing we are trying to do. We have not completed it yet

The Chairman. Wliat is his known business, if he has any ?

Mr. Belling. His only known business originally was the John W.
Thomas Department Stores. After that he has been in everything
and anything he could get in.

Tlie Chairman. He got into that business with a loan from Jiinmy
Hoffa?

Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. What I am getting at is this $2,944,000 was not a
part of the receipts from that store ?

Mr. Belling. No, sir.

The Chairman. They are not sales receipts in that store ?

Mr. Belling. No, sir.

The Chairman. This is individual, aside from the store ?

Mr. Belling. His own individual accounts, yes, sir, aside from the
store. Not the Thomas Department Store accounts.



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 19107

The Chairman. How many different banks have you found this
much in ?

Mr. Bellixo. We have 10 different banks in which they are in his
own name, and then we have 4 in which various companies, such as
Union Land & Home Co., has had accounts.

The CiiAiEMAX. Are you satisfied that you have found all of them
yet?

Mr. Bellixo. No, sir. Every day we are coming up with another
one.

TheCHAiRMAX. Allrif^ht.

Mr. IvExxEDY. Mr. Chairman, we weren't able to get to the Svirskys
yesterday, and I think that should be reasonably short.

The Chaermax. All right.

Mr. Kexxedt. Mr. Svirsky.

The Chairmax. Come forward, please.

Mr. Kexxedy. Come forward, please.

The Chairmax. Let the two witnesses be sworn.

Do you and each of you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give before tliis Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?

Mr. Samuel Sviesky. I do.

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. I do.

TESTmONY OF SAMUEL SVIESKY AND SEYMOUR SVIESKY,
ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, JAMES J. BIEEBOWER

The Chairman. Beginning on my left, the witness on my left, wiU
you please state your name, your place of. business, your residence,
and your business or occupation ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. My name is Samuel Svirsky.

Tiie Chairman >:. "^^Hiat is your name ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. Samuel Svirsky, S-v-i-r-s-k-y.

The Chairmax. Samuel Svirsky. What is your address ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. 1589 West Sixth Street, Brooklyn.

The Chairmax. What is your business or occupation ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. Manufacturer of men's and boys' clothing.

The Chairmax. Thank you very much.

Now, will you give us your narfte, your address, and your business ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Seymour Svirsky, 108 Fifth Avenue, and the
business is men's clothing.

The Chairmax. You have the same counsel, do you ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. I do.

The Chairmax. Please identify yourself for the record.

Mr. Bierbower. James J. Bierbower, of Washington, D.C.

Mr. Kexxedy. You and your father were engaged in the oper-
ation of the Svirsky Clothing Co. ?

Mr. Seymour S^^RSKY. Yes.

Mr. Kexxedy. Until the company went into licjnidation in the lat-
ter part of July 1958 ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes, sir.

Mr. Kexxedy. You generally handled most, if not all, of the activ-
ities with relation to the Teamster jackets ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes, sir.



19108 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

Mr. Kennedy. How did you first hear about the Teamster jackets ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. It was introduced to us through one of our
cutters.

Mr. Kennedy. Who was that ?

Mr. Seymour S^^RSKY. Mr. Dranow. He was introduced through
a cutter who introduced us to an accountant who introduced us to Mr.
Dranow.

The Chairman. Is this the same Dranow who deposited $2.9 million
in the last 4 years ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. I am not sure, but I believe so.

The Chairman. What about that, Mr. Bellino? Is it the same?

Mr. Belling. The same Dranow.

The Chairman. He is doing a lot of "draining" from some source.

Proceed.

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Svirsky, what arrangements, or what did he
state to you at that time ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. We had a mutual understanding that we
would have a 5 percent commission on the Teamster jacket deal.

Mr. Kennedy. That you would pay him a 5 percent commission ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. But there was nothing in writing, just a
mutual undertsanding.

Mr. Kennedy. That you would give him a 5 percent commission ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes.

Mr. Kennedy. And that he in turn would arrange for you to make
some of the Teamster jackets ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. We would arrange to make the Teamster
jackets.

The Chairman. Wliat were they to sell for ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Do you mean wholesale or retail ?

The Chairman. What were you to get for them? I am trying to
determine how much you would pay a commission on for each jacket?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Five percent.

The Chairman. Of what?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Of $12.75. I am sorry.

Mr. Kennedy. You paid to Mr. Dranow a total of some $17,100 and
he repaid on a loan $3,000 ; is that correct?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. That is to my knowledge. That sounds
right.

Mr. Kennedy. You have gone over these figures with Mr. Bellino ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes, that is about right. I believe so.

Mr. Kennedy. The checks started to Mr. Dranow on March 11,
1958, and continued through — we have the checks here — July of 1958?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. That is right, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. March 11 is the first one.

The Chairman. This percentage commission, that meant that he
got 63 cents or nearly 64 cents on each jacket?

Mr. Seymour S^^RSKY. Whatever it amounts to on 5 percent, sir.

The Chairman, 63.75 cents according to my calculation.

Mr. Kennedy. Let us find out, Mr. Bellino, how much it shows that
Dranow got in connection with this jacket operation, completely.

Mr. Bellino. Dranow has received a total in checks with the jacket
operation, of $74,170.22.

The Chairman. Who? Plow much?



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 19109

Mr. Belling. $74,170.22.

The Chairman. Do you mean he got that much on the jackets
that they have bought so far?

Mr. Belltno, From the Simon Cohen-owned companies and Svir-
sky Clothing combined he got a total of approximately $75,000.

The Chairman. That was his commission on this jacket deal that
you have been able to trace ?

Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Proceed.

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know why it was the Teamsters gave this
arrangement to Benjamin Dranow?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. I don't know that, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. Did he ever tell you who he was friendly with in
the Teamsters Union?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. The only thing I know is he gave me an
order and I didn't take the order until I got a deposit, and then I got
a $5,000 deposit and then I knew it was an order.

The Chairman. Were you a little suspicious before you got your
deposit ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Well, a man offers you a lot of coats. You
feel you want a little security.

The Chairman. A little security. You didn't know him before
that time?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. No. I never met him before this time.

The Chairman. You were dealing with a stranger ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. An absolute stranger to me.

The Chairman. And you wanted some evidence of good faith?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Right, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. On the $75,000, we should make sure the record is
complete about it. I would like Mr. Bellino to make a statement.

Mr. Belling. The $75,000 is money received from Simon
Cohen, but it also includes the so-called purchase of the John W.
Thomas Department Store stock which he claimed he paid $50,000
for.

Mr. Kennedy, And then sold it 3 months later for a dollar.

You have included that in the $75,000 ?

Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Other than that, it would be about $25,000?

Mr. Belling. If we treated that as commissions. Actually it was
all given to him during the time of this project, but he offset it against
the stock which I think probably legally he could have avoided if he
wn'-tsd to.

The Chairman. All right. Go ahead.

Mr. Kennedy. Clear-cut it would be $25,000 with another $50,000.

The Chairman. But he actually got in addition to that all of the
stock of this company.

Mr. Belling. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. And later when the company went broke, he sold
it for a dollar.

All right.

Mr. Kennedy. Can we get these checks into the record ?

The Chairman. "What checks have you ?

What have you, Mr. Bellino ?



19110 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

Mr. Belling. We have a batch of checks from Svirsky Clothing
Co., all of which are payable either to Benjamin Dranow directly or
at Ben Dranow's request to Banner Material Supply Co., or the check
was issued, to purchase a "Western Union money order which would
be sent to persons designated by Benjamin Dranow.

The Chairman. Is that the way you handled this matter?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Is that the way you paid the commissions to him?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes, sir.

The CHAmMAN. I will ask you to casually, but sufficiently to satisfy
yourself, to examine some of these checks, photostatic copies of
checks, and see if you identify them as photostatic copies of checks
you gave in payment of commissions to Mr. Dranow or gave to others
at his request in payment of commissions that he earned under your
agreement.

(The documents were handed to the witness.)

The Chairman. You don't have to look at each one. Just satisfy
yourself.

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Do you want me to look at each one ?

The Chairman. Just satisfy yourself that they appear to be the
checks that you gave.

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. They do appear to be ?

Seymour Svirsky. Yes.

The Chairman. They may be made exhibit No. 33.

(Checks referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 33" for reference,
and may be found in the files of the select committee.)

Mr. Kennedy. Just to indicate the operation, Mr. Chairman, would
you ask him if he would identify this check ?

The Chairman. Now I present to you anotlier check, a photostatic
copy of a check ; it appears to be in the amount of $3,450, dated Au-
gust 27, 1958. I wish you would examine it and state if you can
identify it and give us an explanation of it.

(The document was handed to the witness.)

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. This was a check that I deposited in my
account to meet a note of Ben Dranow's for $3,450.

The Chairman. A check you deposited how ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. In my own bank account to meet a note
of Ben Dranow's.

The Chairman. To meet a note of Ben Dranow's ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes.

The Chairman. In other words, you paid off a note for him ?

Mr. Seyiviour Svirsky. Yes.

The Chairman. And that check is a part of his commissions?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. You can consider it, sir.

The Chairman. Well, is that charged against his commissions?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. This is my personal, but you can consider
it a commission.

The Chairman. Was it over and above the commission ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. No. This is in the figure that Mr. Bellino
has.

Mr. Kennedy. It is included.

The Chairman. It is included ?



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 19111

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes, it is in the figure, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. The only point is that that and these other checks
is the way Mr. Dranow operated. Ordinarily, somebody coming m
there and making a survey of the books would not know that this was
part of the commission to Benjamin Dranow. This was a check that
went into his own bank account to discount a note of Benjamin
Dranow,

It came from him personally, not from the company.

The Chairman. That check may be made exhibit No. 34.

(Check referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 34" for reference and
will be found in the appendix on p. 19139.)

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Bellino will explain another one of these
transactions.

Mr. Bellino. This involved the Town & Travel Casuals, and they
issued a check to Sidney Schuster on March 21 for $3,500.

Mr. Kennedy. 'Who is he ?

Mr. Bellino. A brother-in-laAv of Simon Cohen.

The Chairman. AVho is Simon Cohen ?

Mr. Bellino. Simon Cohen, of Town & Travel Casuals. They are
another company that handled the Tesuiister jackets.

The Chairman. From which he also got a commission ?

Mr. Bellino. Yes, sir. When he paid it to Schuster, Schuster
deposited it in his account and then issued one check direct to Ben-
jamin Dranow for $1,000 and a second check payable to S. & A.
the balance of $2,500.

Then S. & A. Diamond Furs turns around and issues their, check
payable to the Bankers Trust Co. and they wire to Benjamin Dranow
the balance of $2,500.

The Chairman. In other words, there was a manipulation to try
to conceal the true transaction.

Mr. Bellino. That is right, that there was a commission payment.

The Chairman. That is what appears on the face of it ?

Mr. Bellino. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Those documents, the checks you have just re-
ferred to, may be made exhibits 35-A, 35-B, and 35-C, in the order of
their dates.

(Checks referred to were marked "Exhibits 35-A, 35-B, and 35-C,"
for reference and will be found in the appendix on pp. 19140-19142.)

Mr. Kennedy. That is what makes these operations so difficult,
because Dranow and others are always through fronts, and when
they get commissions, as here, it goes through second, third, and
fourth parties, until they get the money.

Particularly when you have people that will not cooperate, par-
ticularly members of the bar, as Mr. Burris, and you go in and ask
questions about it and they tell you untruths, it makes it more difficult.

The Chairman. Is there anything further?

Did you regard Mr. Dranow as an agent of the union?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. I regarded him, sir, as a man that would
get business for me from the Teamsters Union. I wouldn't know if
he was an agent or not.

The Chairman. Did he tell you what his connection was with the
union?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. The only connection I know is that he got
me orders.



19112 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

The Chairman. I understand he got you orders. But did the orders
come directly from the union? Did the union write you and say,
"Make up so many orders," or what?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. We got confirmations from the union.

The Chairman. When he gave you the order, you got confirmations ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. We got a deposit and the size and name
scale.

The Chairman. You got that from the union?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. But he would give you the order, and you would
get confirmation?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. He said it would follow, that we would get
the order subject to all the money coming in and the sizes.

The Chairman. He would tell you what the order would be and
you would get the confirmation of it with the detailed information?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Right, sir.

The Chairman. How many different orders did you receive; do
you know?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Two locals, 299 and 337.

The Chairman. You got more than one order from each local,
did you not ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. No, there were only two locals we did busi-
ness with.

The Chairman. You did business with two locals. But did they
give you just one order each or did one or more of them

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Do you mean did the orders keep coming in ?

The Chairman. Yes.

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. So you got the connection established, the business
relationship, and then you would get additional orders from time to
time for additional numbers of jackets?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. That is right, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. On one occasion, for instance, you sent a Western
Union money order to Ruby Ortendahl ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. That is right, sir.

Mr. Kennedy. In Las Vegas. What was the reason for that ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. I received a phone call from Mr. Ben
Dranow requesting me to send him $150.

Mr. Kennedy. Why did you sent it to Ruby ?_

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. He asked me to send it to her.

Mr. Kennedy. $150 to her ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Yes.

Mr. Kennedy. And you sent it to her just because of the fact that
he was able to get you this contract ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. He was a man that was able to produce
business.

Mr. Kennedy. From the Teamsters.

The Chairman. You never doubted that, did you?

Mr. Seymour Sversky. No. The results proved it.

The Chairman. He proved it. All right.

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Abe Weintraub ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Who ?

Mr. Kennedy. Abe Weintraub of New York or Miami ?



IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD 19113

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. I think you have the name wrong.

Mr. Kennedy. Wliat name do you know ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. I think it is Weinblatt.

Mr. Kennedy. How do you know him ?

Mr. Sey'mour Svirsky. Through Ben Dranow. Are we talking
about the same party '^

Mr. Kennedy. Ray Weinblatt.

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Are you asking Eay or Abe ?

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know either one ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. I think Ray is the father; Abe is the son.

Mr. Kennedy. How do you know that ?

Mr, Seymour Svirsky. They were in the office with Ben Dranow,
at 470 Fifth Avenue.

Mr. I^nnedy. What was Dranow using their office for?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. I don't know.

Mr. Kennedy. What about Bernard Spindel ?

Mr. Seymour S^tcrsky. I am not sure. I don't think I know that.
I don't remember that name.

Mr. Kennedy. What about Allen Dorf man ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. I don't tliink I know him. I might.

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Abe Gordon ?

Mr. Seymour S^t;rsky. I heard of him. I don't know him per-
sonally. I might know him.

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know Mr. Abe Gordon ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky^. Never met the man.

Mr. Kennedy. Did you ever have any dealings with him?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. Never seen him.

Mr. Kennedy. Allen Dorf man ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. Never know him.

Mr. KJENNEDY. Bernard Spindel ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. Never seen him.

Mr. Kennedy. Bernard Spindel ? Did you ever have any dealings
with him ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. No.

Mr. Kennedy. None at all ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. No, sir.

Mr. Ivennedy. IVhat was this $300 for, Mr. Svirsky ?

The Chairman. The Chair presents you a check in the amount of
$300 dated, apparently, February 6, 1958.

Mr. Kennedy. March 6.

The Chairman. March 6, 1958, made payable to cash. It appears
to have been issued on your company, Svirsky Clothing Co. Will you
please examine this photostatic copy of the check and state if you
identify it ?

(The document was handed to the witness.)

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. This morning I explained this to Mr. Bellino.

The Chahuvian. Let me ask you. Do you identify that as a photo-
static copy ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. I do.

The Chairman. It may be made exhibit No. 36.

(Check referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 36" for reference and
will be found in the appendix on p. 19143.)

The Chairman. Now you may explain it.



19114 IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR FIELD

Mr. Kennedy. What is the check ? What is the check for ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. According to my recollection, this check No.
12282 has been made an exchange check with one of my credit men by
the name of Larry Feldman, who is working now for Brookfield
Clothes, in the smn of $300, signed by one of his girls that went down
and got him the cash for it.

Mr. Kennedy. This check is of some interest to us, this $300, and
where it went. We checked with Mr. Feldman — Mr. Bellino checked
with Mr. Feldman — and he stated that he received $400 and it was
a check payable to him.

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. Well, according to my recollection, he wanted
that loan and I have it marked here according to my books. It reads
as an exchange check.

Mr. Belling. According to your books, the check stub shows that
was for travel expenses.

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. I really don't know. As far as I have this
sheet of paper it reads exchange. I know he remembers he owes me
three. I already threatened the man if he don't give me the $300.
This girl that signed went down and got him the cash. That is as far
as my knowledge is concerned unless there is something else in your
mind that you can enlighten me on.

Mr. Kennedy. Did that money go to anyone at Mr. Benjamin
Dranow's request ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. As far as my knowledge, I have never given
Mr. Ben Dranow 5 cents. I have never seen the man outside of four or
five times.

Mr. Kennedy. Was that money sent to anyone at his request ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. Kennedy. Do you know about that ?

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Not to my knowledge. I don't recall any
times. I don't remember.

Mr. Kennedy. There wasn't a money order, telegram money order,
purchased with that $300 and sent to somebody ?

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. Not that I know of.

Mr. Seymour Svirsky. Can you show us anything to refresh our
memory ?

Mr. Kennedy. I am asking you.

Mr. Samuel Svirsky. I really don't know. All I recollect is the



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