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may deliherate. 1 submit that motion.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the motion of
the Senator from Indiana that the doors be closed and the galleries
cleared, that the Senate may deliberate. ^

The motion was not agreed to ; there being, on a division^ayes 15,
noes 24.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the proposition
of the managers as modified, which will be read.

The Chief Clerk read as follows :

Re$olved^ That on the 6th day of July, 1676, the Seimte sittinf^ as a court of im-
peachmeut will proceed to hear the evidence on the morits in the trial of this case.

Mr. SARGENT. Mr. President, I propose the same order, striking
out the time fixed and inserting the 19tb of June. If Senators will
wait while I go through the manual exercise of writing it, very well.
Otherwise I think the Clerk might write it out.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The rule requires all motions to be
reduced to writing. The Chair will enforce the rule. The Secretaiy
will reduce this motion to writing.

The Chief Clerk read as follows :

Uetdved^ That on the 19th day of June, 1876, the Senate sitting as a court of im-
peachment will proceed to hear the evidence on the merits in tiie trial of this case.

Mr. ANTHONY. Do I understand that the vote refusing to clear
the galleries is equivalent to a vote to refuse to retire for consultation?

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is. The Chair put the queetion
on clearibg the galleries ana closing the doors that the Senate might
deliberate, and the Senate declined to do it.

Mr. ANTHONY. It is likely some might be willing to retire who
would not wish to clear the galleries. Imove that the Senate retire
for consultation.

The motion was not agreed to.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The proposition of the Senator from
California, which has been read, being the proposition of a Senator,
the Chair will pnt the question on it as first in order.

Mr. ANTHONY. I move to substitute for the 19th of June the 11th
of July.

The PRESIDENT pio tempore. The Senator from Rhode Island
moves to amend the propositioi^of the Senator from California by
substituting the 11th of July.

Mr. EDMUNDS. Is the proposition of the Senator from California
before the Senate?

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is ; and the Senator from Rhode
Island moves to amend it by striking out " the 19th day of June'' and
inserting " the 11th day of July."

Mr. CAMERON, of Pennsylvania. Is that liable to be amended
again f

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is.

Mr. CAMERON, of Pennsylvania. I move to substitate the 6th for
the 11th of July.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Pennsylvania
moves to amend the amendment by inserting the 6th of July instead
of the 11th. The question is on this amendment to the amendment.

Mr. WRIGHT. I understood that the order offered by the managers
was the pending order, and that the order offered by the Senator from
California was not an amendment to that, and therefore the question
would be put on the propositions in the order they were offered.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair has ruled that a propo-
sition made by managers or counsel is not amendable by Senators ;
but any proposition made by a Senator is amendable by a Senator,
nor can the proposition made by Senators be amended by the counsel
or managers. A motion made by a Senator has priority of one offered
by the managers or the counsel.

Mr. WRIGHT. But I understood the Chair to say that the order
offered by the managers, being first in time, the vote would first be

The PRESIDENT proMmpore. If the Chair stated that, he was in-
correct.

Mr. WRIGHT. I certamly so understood.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chaur holds that theproposition
of a Senator has priority of a proposition of the parties. The proposi-
tion offered by the Senator from California being before the Senate,
it is pronosed to be amended by the Senator from Rhode Island, to
which the Senator &om Pennsylvania offers an amendment. The
Secretary will read the amendment to the amendment.

Mr. EDMUNDS. I rise to inquire whether, if no Senator asks for
the veas and nays on these points of time, it is necessary to call the
rollT

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The rule requires it; but, if no Sen-
ator asks for the yeas and days, the Chair will put the question with-
out them.

Mr. EDMUNDS. I think the seventh rule excuses us from calling
the roll on these questions unless the yeas and nays are regularly de-
mandcHl.

Mr. SARGENT. Let the several amendments be read that we may
know how the question stands.



The Chief Clerk. The pending proposition is to strike out '' the
11th" and insert "the 6th ;" so as to read:

That on the 6th day of July, 1876, the Senate sitting as a court of impeach-
ment, Su^.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on this amendment,
proposed by the Senator from Pennsylvania to the amendment of the
Senator from Rhode Island.

The amendment to the amendment was agreed to.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question now recurs on the
proposition of the Senator from California thus amended, which will
be read.

Mr. SARGENT. I rise to a point of order.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator will state his point of
order.

Mr. SARGENT. The proposition of the Senator from Rhode Island
has been amended by the amendment of the Senator from Pennsyl-
vania; and, being so amended, the Question is whether that shall be
substituted for theproposition which I made.

The PRESIDENT jm> tempore. The proposition of the Senator from
Rhode Island was simply as to time, and the Chair took the amend-
ment adopted by the Senate as taking the place of the amendment of
the Senator from Rhode Island. The Senator from Rhode Island
moved one day ; the Senator from Pennsylvania moved a different
day, and that was agreed to by the Senate.

Mr. SARGENT. Exactly ; and now the question is between that
date, being the 6th of July, and the 19th of June, as I moved.

Mr. EDMUNDS. That is it.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. So the Chair stated, and he directed
the question to be reported as it is now proposed to be amended.

The Chief Clerk. The original proposition was in these words :

That on the 19th day of Jnne, 1876, the Senate sitting as a oonrt of impeachment
will prooeed to hear the eridence on the merits in the trial of this case.

Mr. WHYTE. There must have been some misunderstanding, cer-
tainly, on the part of some Senators; certainly there has been upon
mine. Do I understand that the Senate has already adopted the 6th
of July!

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair will state the question.
The Senator from California moved in his proposition the 19th of
June. The Senator from Rhode Island moved to strike out that date
and insert the 11th of July. The Senator from Pennsylvania moved
to amend the amendment, and instead of the 11th to insert the 6th of
July. That has taken the place of the amendment of the Senator
from Rhode Island, and the question now stands upon theproposition
of the Senator from California as thus amended.

Mr. EDMUNDS. Not as amended, but aa proposed to be amended.

Mr. THURMAN. I submit that the question is, ShiOl the 19th of
Jnne be stricken out and the 6th of July inserted f

Mr. WHYTE. That is the way we understood the question.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment of the Senator from
Rhode Island, as amended, stands in place of the proposition sub-
mitted by the Senator from California. So the Chair understuids.
All the difference is that the proposition of the Senator from Penn-
sylvania has taken the place of that of the Senator from Rhode
Island. The question now is, Shall that be substituted for the original
proposition of the Senator from California?

Mr. MITCHELL. Before the vote is taken, I should like to pnt an
inquiry to the counsel for the respondent.

Will the 19th of Jnne give the respondent's counsel such time as
they deem necessaiy to prepare for tnal on the merits f

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senate will hear the counseL

Mr. BLAIR. We have had no opportunity to confer on the subject,
but, so far as advised, that would not give us the necessary time. We
have some witnesses who will not be attainable at that time.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question now before the Senate
is. Will the Senate strike out the 19th of June and insert the 6th of
July f The Chair puts it in a different form so as to make it under-
stood.

The amendment, as amended, was rejected.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question recurs on the proposi-
tion of the Senator from California.

Mr. BLAIR. Would it be in order for the counsel for the respond-
ent to make a motion in regard to the time f

The PRESIDENT two tempore. It would be in order for them to
make a proposition, nut it would not be in order to amend the pro-
posed order.

Mr. EDMUNDS. It would be in order to be heard.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair wUl entertain the propo-
sition of the counsel.

Mr. BLAIR. I would beg, after conferrine, to state to the Senate
that we can only judge of the character of tne witnesses needed for
our defense by the character of those who are summoned here for the
prosecution. There are some witnesses summoned for the prosecu-
tion whose testimony has been taken that we do not think bears di-
rectly upon the allegations contained in the articles. If those wit-
nesses are to be examlned^and I presume they will be, as they have
been examined formerly — we shall need a class of witnesses and testi-
mony which will not be at all attainable within the time mentioned
by the order proposed to be adopted now.

We think that justice to the defendant will be secured and the
public business quite as well advanced by laying this trial over until



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TRIAL OF WILLIAM W. BELKNAP.



167



the next session of the Senate, or nntil some special adjoomment of
the Senate for November; ana if it be in order for me to submit a
proposition of that kind on the part of the defense I will do so. Of
course the Senate will vote upon the subject. If it votes down the
proposition of the Senator from California it will be permissible, I
presume, to then offer a motion in writing to adjourn over this trial
until November or the 6th day of £>eceml]^r next.

I take the liberty of saving to the Senate that, while of course they
know their own business better than I do^ it seems to me that there can
be no public object in requiring this trial to go on at this time. It
seems to me that the convenience of the Senate and the convenience
of all parties would be promoted by the adjournment of the trial
over, say, to the 6th of Dkdcember.

Mr. BLACK. Or to the 1st of November.

Mr. BLAIR. Or to the 1st of November, some time after the sum-
mer heats shall have passed away^ when it would be convenient for
all parties to be here. Our original proposition, as the Senate knows,
was to adjourn this question over until after the presidential elec-
tion. I do not think that anything has occurred since that motion
was made to derogate from the soundness of the views I expressed
in makins the motion, and I now give notice to the Senate that, if
they shalTvote down this proposition of the Senator from Callfomia,
I shall hope to make that motion.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is now upon the origi-
nal proposition submitted by the Senator from California.

Mr. BLAIR. Before the vote is taken, I desire to suggest that my
client says that General Terry, who is commanding an expedition,
cannot be brought here in time for the occasion now mentioned. It
is necessary for him to be here, provided cert>ain witnesses now on
the list of those to be examined by the counsel for the House of Rep-
resentatives are examined. In that case General Terry would be an
indispensable witness for him. and he cannot be here before fall. He
is ready to make afiSdavit of tnat fact, if the Senate should require it.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is upon the original
proposition submitted by the Senator from California, which the Sec-
retary will now report.

The Chief Clerk read as follows :

Ordtr^d, That on the 19th of Jane, 1876, the Senate sitting ae a conrt of impeach-
ment will proceed to hear the evidence on the merito of the trial in this oaae.

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. That is not open to debate, I under-
stand?

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is not open to debate.

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. I ask unanimous consent to make a sin-
gle observation, not by way of debate at all, but bv way of suggestion.

The PRESIDENT jfro tempore. Is there objection to the request of
the Senator from Maine t The Chair hears no objection, and ne will
proceed.

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. The question of fixing the time, in my
mind, is very important to the Senate and the country.

Mr. EDMUNDS. I think if the Senator will move that the doors
be closed it may succeed ; and then we can consider the question.

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. I desire to say simplv in the interests of
the exigencies of the public business that we ought to confer on this
question before the vote is taken by the Senate.

Mr. SHERMAN. I feel it my duty to object to debate unless we
can all participate in the debate. I have no objection to going into
private consultation to consider this point.

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. I suggest to my honorable friend that
I stated that I did not rise for debate.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Maine is pro-
ceeding by common consent, and is therefore entitled to the floor.

Mr. SHERMAN. I desire to hear the Senator and other Senators
upon the questtDu before the Senate.

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine, ^j object in making a single remark
will justify me in making a motion, which I now propose to do, that
the Senate have a private conference either by retiring from the Sen-
ate or by closing the doors.

Mr. EDMUNDS. I suggest to the Senator that he move to close
the doors.

Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. I move that the doors be closed for
deliberation.

The motion was agreed to ; and the Senate proceeded to deliberate.

The floor and galleries having been cleared and the doors closed,

The question recurred on the resolution of Mr. Sargent.

Mr. SARGENT having modified his resolution to read as follows:

Meaohotdj Thatfartherprooeedinssin this case, after the filing of his answer by
the def onoant, be i>ostponed nntil the 6th day of December next,

Mr. EDMUNDS moved to amend the resolution by striking out
''6th day of December next'' and in lieu thereof inserting *'6th day
of July."

Mr. COCEIRELL moved to amend the amendment by strikins out
the words proposed to be inserted and in lieu thereof inserting ^^19th
d^ of June instant."

The question being taken by yeas and nays on the amendment to
the amendment, resulted — ^yeas 19, nays 27 ; as follows:

YEAS— Messrs. Allison, Bajrard, Bogy, Caperton^ Cookrell, Dennis, Gordon,
Hamilton, Johnston, Maxey, Morrill of Vermont, Norwood, Sargent, Baolsbnry,
Sherman, Stevenson, Thurman, Whyte, and Withers— 19.

NAYS— Messrs. Anthony, Booth, Bnmside, Clayton, Conkling, Cooper, Cragin,
Boraey, Eaton, Edmunds, Ferry, Ooldthwaite, Hunlin, Howe, Kelly, Key, Lo^ui,



McCreery, Mitchell, Morrill of Maine, Morton, Paddock, Kansom. Bobertson. Wad-
leich, Windoro, and Wright^27.

NOT VOTING— Messrs. Alcorn. Bamnm. BoatwoU, Brace, Cameron of Penn-
sylvania, Cameron of Wisconsin, ChrisUancy. Conover, Davis, Dawes, Frellnghuy-
son, Harvey. Hitchcock, Ingalls, Jones of Florida, Jones of Nevada, Keman, Mc-
Donald. McMillan, Morrimon, Oglesby, Patterson, Kandolph, Sharon. Spencer.
WaUacc, and Westr-27. . i- .

So the amendment to the amendment was rcjecte<l.

The question recurring on the amendment of Mr. Edmunds, he
called for the yeas aod nays, and they were ordered ; and heing taken,
resulted— yeas 36, nays 9 ; as follows :

YEAS— Messrs. Anfhony, Bayard, Bogy, Booth, Caperton, Cookrell, Conkling,
Cooper, Cragin, Dennis, Eaton, Edmunds, Ferry. Goldthwaite, Gordon. Hamiltcm,
Hamlin, Howe, Johnston, Kelly, Key, McCreery, Maxey, Mitchell, MorriUof Maine, '
Morrill of Vermont, Norwood. Ransom. Bobertson, siBuUsbary, Stevenson, Thur-
man, Wadleigh,Whyte, Withers, and Wright-36.

NAYS— Messrs. Allison, Bnmside, Clayton, Jones of Nevada, Morton, Paddock,
Sargen^Shorman, and Windom— 9.

lH)T VOTING — Messrs. Alcorn, Bamum, Bontwell^moe, Canoeron of Pennsyl-
vania, Cameron of Wisconsin. Christianoy, Conover, Davis, Dawes, Dorsey, Fre-
linghuyseuj Harvey, Hitohcock^ Ininlls, Jones of Florida, Keman, Logan, McDon-
aldT McMillan, Merrimon, Oglesby, Patterson^ Randolph, Sharon, Spencer, Wallace,
and West— 28.

8o the amendment was agreed to.

The resolution of Mr. Sarqent having been further amended, on
the motion of Mr. £dmunds, it was agreed to ; as follows :

Ordered, That on the 6th of July, 1676, at one o'clock p. m., the Senate sitting as
a court of impeachment will proceed to hear the evidence on the merits of the wial
in this



On motion of Mr. EDMUNDS, the doors were re-opened, after one
hour and thirty -five minutes spent in deliberation.

The managers and the respondent and his counsel having taken
their seats,

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senate continues the trial in
open session. It has made an order which will be read.

The Chief Clerk read as follows :

Ordered, That on ihe 6th of July, 1676, at one o'clock p. m., the Senate sitting as
a court of impeachment will proceed to near the evidence on the merits of the trial
in this case.

Mr. BLAIR. Mr. President^ we have a motion to submit, which I
will read to the Senate, as it is in my writing :

In the Senate of the United States sitting as a court of impeachment
The Umtrd States )

WlLUAM W. BBLKNAP. >

William W. Belknap, by his counsel, moves the court that an order be made upon
the managers on the part of the House of Representatives to furnish within twenty-
four hours to the accused or his counsel a list of the witnesses whom they intend
to call, together with the particulars of the facto which they expect to prove by
them.

Mr. HAMLIN. Let the Secretary read the motion.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Secretary will read the motion.

The motion was read bythe Chief Clerk.

Mr. Manager LORD. We simply sav now that we object to the
order entirely as without precedent and without reason.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Senators, you have heard the prop-
osition submitted for your decision on the part of the counsel for the
defense.

Mr. Manager McMAHON. Before the question is put, I desire to
call the attention of the Senate to the fact that a large portion of the
testimony, and especially the material testimony in this case, is al-
ready in possession of the respondent bv reason of the investigation
of the House which was published. He is fully posted in regard to
every point that he may have to meet.

Mr. BLAIR. Mr. President and Senators, of course in respect to
that part of the testimony which has been printed, it is very easy to
furnish it to us ; but I b^ leave to say that there is a large portion
of the testimony taken before the Judiciary Committee of which we
are not at all informed, which we have applied to the managers for
copies of, but they repelled us and refused to give them to us. We
do not know what part of it they may rely on at all. We have rumors
of its character from the press ; but we do not know what part of it
they mean to rely upon, or what facts they mean to rely upon ; and
as we are ordered to prepare, we want to make that preparation to
meet such case as thev may make. We think it is a perfectly f ai r prop-
osition, and it is made in perfect good faith.
. Mr. THURMAN. I submit an inquiry to bo propounded to counsel.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question of the Senator from
Ohio will be read.

The Chief Clerk read as follows :

Is there any precedent for the order asked for, either in impeach-
ment trials or in ordinary courts of criminal jurisdiction f

Mr. BLACK. No ; but certainly there ought to be one made.

Mr. Manner McMAHON. It is rather late in the day.

Mr. BLACK. Wo do not go upon precedent here ; that is, this ap-
plication is not founded upon anything that has ever happened Im>-
fore. There never was a case like this before. I have never heard
whether the managers object to this order or not. If they do, I can-
not conceive for what reason. Certainly they do not intend to keep
us in ignorance of the kind of case they are going to produce against
us and take us by surprise and then proceed and run over us and get
a conviction agamst us on grounds that we have no notice of. They
do not think it is unfair, I suppose, to tell us beforehand what sort



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168



TRIAL OF WILLIAM W. BELKNAP.



of facts they intend to prodnce. We want it soon in order that there
may he no delay about this. We are for speeding this cause. None
of your dilatory motions, if you please ; do not hnng hack now since
you have got the time fixed for trial and pnt us in such a condition as
that we shall have to ask for a continuance asain, and be again ac-
cused of desiring to delay. But will the gentloman tell us now upon
what groand they desire not to let us into this wonderful secret that
^hey have gotf

Mr. Manager McMAHON. The specifications are very distinct and
clear, are they not f

Mr. BLACK. The specifications of the general charge are clear
;*nough.

Mr. Manager McMAHON. The particular day is given in each one
on which your client is charged with receiving the money.

Mr. BLACK. Very well. Now we want you to state the particular
facts, the evidence upon which you are going to sustain that, and the
names of the witnesses by whom you intend to prove it.

Mr. Manager LORD. Mr. President and Senators, as has alreadv
been suggested by my colleague, the articles of impeachment set forth
with great exactness and with ^reat minuteness the precise facts of the
case; and what i» the j^roposition which the counsel makes f It is no
more and no lessthan this, that he has the ri^ht to invade the room of the
managers, that he has the right to ascertain their course of trial, that
he has the right to know every possible witness to prove a certain
fact.

Sn£9cient it is to say that the wisdom of all the ages is against it.
The learned counsel had better devote himself to answering the ques-
tion of the Senator, and find whether in all the past ages a single
precedent of this kind has been had in any criminal proceeding. It
IS not enough for him to rise here and say he did not hear the man-
agers object. He may possibly have been out of the room. It is not
enough for Aim to stitnd here and say, "We need to make a prece-
dent in this case.'' It is enough for us to answer that he asks for an
extraordinary precedent, extraordinary proceeding, against the wis-
dom of all the past, and in regard to which he cannot find the
first authority m. rummaging through all the books of the common
law and all the books relating to criminal jurisprudence. I am sur-
prised that any such proposition should be seriously made here, that
we should be compelled, in advance, to disclose to him the names of
witnesses and what each witness is expected to testify to, when we
have laid before him in the broadest manner every charge that we
make, and one article of these articles of impeachment contains seven-
teen specifications. Many of us thought so much labor was unneces-
sary ; and yet in order that there need be no complaint whatever, in
order that we might treat the other side with the utmost judicial fair-
ness, we have spread upon the record the amount and the time and
the place and the purpose. Now for him to ask of us that we should
hand him in the names of those witnesses beyond the Rocky Mount-
ains and this side of the Rocky Mountains— I will not say that he
asks this for any sinister purpose; of course we are bound to assume
that he asks it for an honorable purpose — but sufficient to say that
you would convict very few man on the face of the earth, that very
few tribunals would ever render the verdict of guilty if such an
order as this should be made in a criminal proceeding.

Mr. BLACK. I will tell the honorable manager the reason it is very
important for us to have it. They have their witnesses here, or at
least within easy reach. Ours are scattered all over the continent ;
some of them in California, others in the Indian Territory. It be-
comes absolutely necessary for us, as soon as we can, to get out our
subpcBuas for witnesses and use all diligence in bringing them here.
If the trial is to go on upon the 6th of July or at any other time, even



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